# The equality of the Iraki savages and the avoidance of racist **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [September 7, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711 "2014-09-07T00:26:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/1 "2014-09-07T00:26:38Z")
This is what is learned from the Great Debates > [@8 infants die in bombing of hospital in ISIS area](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-infants-die-in-bombing-of-hospital-in-isis-area/697686/5): > > So fckng what? Why should we care? One band of primitive savages attacking another. WHo cares? > [@8 infants die in bombing of hospital in ISIS area](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-infants-die-in-bombing-of-hospital-in-isis-area/697686/7): > > Would you mind keeping the racist claptrap in the pit where people can properly respond to it. > > Thanks in advance. The moderation: > [@8 infants die in bombing of hospital in ISIS area](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/8-infants-die-in-bombing-of-hospital-in-isis-area/697686/8): > > Both of you calm the heck down. So it is the same offense to ask to avoid the making of racist commentary and insult and to make a racist comment. It continues to be interesting what can be said freely about the africans and the muslims and the arabs without a moderation, but it is drawing comment if such a comment is called racist. It must be to avoid to cause the offense to those saying this because it is learned that the word racist is an insult and it is not acceptable to insult. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/2 "2014-09-07T02:25:07Z")
Of course, none of that was said in the post by the moderator, or even implied. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/3 "2014-09-07T02:33:21Z")
Indeed. I’ve spottily followed the thread in question and I disagree. I think it’s stupid but I think it doesn’t rise to the level of racism. But beyond continued monitoring, I don’t intend to intercede further. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/4 "2014-09-07T02:35:43Z")
The post by **Ibm Warraq** was junior modding. He’s lucky he didn’t get a warning. This isn’t about equivalency. There are rules against hate speech and rules against junior modding. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/5 "2014-09-07T02:57:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The post by **Ibm Warraq** was junior modding. He’s lucky he didn’t get a warning. > > This isn’t about equivalency. There are rules against hate speech and rules against junior modding. How exactly was I “junior modding”? Not challenging BTW, just that doesn’t seem to be my understanding of what constitutes “Junior modding”. I merely noted that I felt classifying some Iraqi Air Force pilots accidentally killing several Arab children struck me as “racist claptrap” and suggested taking the discussion to the Pit. I’ve suggested on several other occasions to take discussions to the Pit, had it done to me and never once seen it classified as “junior modding”. If if I’m misunderstanding what constitutes “junior modding” please correct me. Also, if you don’t mind my asking, if on a thread referencing some black schoolchildren killed by members of the Crips or the Vice Lords an African-American poster such as Monstro(not meant to single her out) had said “Would you mind keeping the racist claptrap in the pit where people can properly respond.” Would your response be to say the Mods should give her a warning for “junior modding”? Again, the last question is not meant to be confrontational, just an honest question as to how you’d react to an analogous situation. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/6 "2014-09-07T03:57:55Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Indeed. > > I’ve spottily followed the thread in question and I disagree. I think it’s stupid but I think it doesn’t rise to the level of racism. But beyond continued monitoring, I don’t intend to intercede further. I’m unclear on how “One band of primitive savages attacking another” doesn’t rise to the level of racism. It strikes me as blowing past the level of racism and raising its racist flag high in the air for all to see. Allowing unpopular opinions to see the light of day is one thing. I’ve ambivalently defended it when racists are spouting their pseudoscience, because then there’s something to rebut. But here there’s nothing to rebut; it’s just content-free racism at its ugliest. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/7 "2014-09-07T04:15:02Z")
I think that “One band of primitive savages attacking another” kind of sentiment is one explanation for why there is no condemnation by the State Dept. of this incident, no demonstrations in Europe against it, and why this is not covered and will be covered in US press. I did a search. It was reported in a couple of Middle Eastern sources and in some Australian news sites. That’s it. Ho hum. Just some savages killing each other. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/8 "2014-09-07T06:29:21Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > How exactly was I “junior modding”? Are you serious? You were telling anther poster how and where he should be posting. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/9 "2014-09-07T06:49:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you serious? You were telling anther poster how and where he should be posting. I’ve honestly never heard anyone claim that suggesting “take this to the pit” or “if you want to continue you this conversation then open a pit thread” or a hundred other variations on this is an example of “junior modding” and I’ve made such statements in the past and have had it said to me. I’ve also regularly heard people say things like “shouldn’t this be in the Pit” or “why isn’t this in the pit”. Also, once again, is your position that if someone on another thread discussing a shooting death in say Watts or the Bedford-Stuy declared “who cares, some primitive savages killing other primitive savages” and one of our African-American posters said. > [@](#): > > would you mind keeping the racist claptrap in the pit where people can properly respond to it. > > Thanks in advance. your position is that the African-American poster should be given a warning for “junior modding”? I doubt that’s how most other people think. ---
**Author:** ![jimbuff314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c57346/32.png) [@jimbuff314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimbuff314)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/10 "2014-09-07T08:55:38Z")
“Hey guys. There’s a red thingy coming toward the green thingy. I think we’re the green thingy. Just FYI.” Are each of these posts things best addressed in ATMB? Don’t worry. I’ll self-report _my_ junior modding. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/11 "2014-09-07T09:02:17Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > So it is the same offense to ask to avoid the making of racist commentary and insult and to make a racist comment. No. And your statement would make more sense if someone had actually asked another poster to avoid racist commentary. In this case the rude comment was met by another rude comment and both parties were told to stop. The policy of the SDMB is that when a poster encounters a post that he or she considers a rules violation, the proper response is to Report the post and let the Moderators handle it rather than starting a fight to impose one’s ideas of the rules on other posters. > [@Ramira](#): > > It continues to be interesting what can be said freely about the africans and the muslims and the arabs without a moderation, but it is drawing comment if such a comment is called racist. It must be to avoid to cause the offense to those saying this because it is learned that the word racist is an insult and it is not acceptable to insult. Making derogatory comments about various groups simply displays the level of intelligence or maturity of the poster. This board has no policy of preventing a poster from displaying his or her social shortcomings in public. There are limits to what is permitted, (as this incident demonstrates). However, this is an American board and we do not follow certain practices of censorship (or censureship) that are currently popular elsewhere in the world. On the other hand, rude name-calling and “giving orders” to other posters generally results in fights that do nothing to promote discussion and we discourage those activities, as well. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/12 "2014-09-07T09:15:29Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > … (snip) However, this is an American board … (snip) OP, I would say that this statement answers your query succinctly. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/13 "2014-09-07T09:48:33Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Of course, none of that was said in the post by the moderator, or even implied. No, it the actions of moderation that make the equivalence clear. > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I think it’s stupid but I think it doesn’t rise to the level of racism. Of course you do not think so. > [@AK84](#): > > (snip) > OP, I would say that this statement answers your query succinctly. Yes it was expected. At least it is now made more evident. It is fine to call muslims, iraqis, packs of savages and this is not racist at all, but to call that racist openly is in this present moderation “junior moderating” and offense and only causes problems in their eyes. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/14 "2014-09-07T09:58:32Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > At least it is now made more evident. It is fine to call muslims, iraqis, packs of savages and this is not racist at all, but to call that racist openly is in this present moderation “junior moderating” and offense and only causes problems in their eyes. No. It is not “fine” to call people names. However, people who engage in name-calling diminish their own arguments and display their own shortcomings. People who attack other posters disrupt discussions. I do not know whether you fail to understand the distinction or whether you choose to ignore the distinction, but your assessment is not accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/15 "2014-09-07T11:06:07Z")
Look at it this way - if we didn’t allow the racists to speak, how would we know they’re racists? ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/16 "2014-09-07T12:14:45Z")
[Quote=Registration Agreement] … you will not use the SDMB to post any material that you know or should know is false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person’s privacy, or in violation of U.S. law. … You are free to express your views in a forceful manner provided you remain civil. Hate speech, insults, and purposely inflammatory remarks (i.e., trolling) will not be tolerated. Do not post threats or state or imply that any individual or group is deserving of harm. We recognize that this rule cannot be strictly applied in discussions of war, capital punishment and the like but urge users to express themselves in moderate terms nonetheless. [/quote] The question of whether “band of primitive savages” fits any of these categories (hateful, hate speech, purposely inflammatory) is situational; and war and capital punishment (both of which come into play in this situation) allow some exceptions. I think “band of primitive savages” is apt for the ISIS folks. Not so much for Iraqi pilots (unless they are deliberately hitting hospitals), and considerably less so (sarcastic understatement) for newborns or for those poor souls under ISIS rule involuntarily. We’ve often said, if you spot an infraction (espesh insults) do NOT respond in kind, but report it. The fact that one party has broken the rules does not give you permish to do so. REPORT (click on the little ! in the red triangle in upper right corner) and let the mods handle. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/17 "2014-09-07T12:32:53Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The post by **Ibm Warraq** was junior modding. He’s lucky he didn’t get a warning. > > This isn’t about equivalency. There are rules against hate speech and rules against junior modding. Sorry, as of the most recent versions of the rules, this absolutely, unequivocally is _not_ junior modding. I don’t get it either but per Dex: > [@Dex](#): > > the suggestion of a forum change is not, to my mind, “junior modding” so much as making a suggestion. from [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17561899&postcount=5). I don’t think that rule makes any sense since post placement is one of the primary jobs of a mod, but there it is, black and white. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/18 "2014-09-07T12:38:44Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Look at it this way - if we didn’t allow the racists to speak, how would we know they’re racists? This is the end goal, _non_? If racists can only be racist inside their own head, then racism becomes a far less problematic issue. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/19 "2014-09-07T13:02:48Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#): > > This is the end goal, _non_? If racists can only be racist inside their own head, then racism becomes a far less problematic issue. Because evil has to be brought to light or it festers. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711/20 "2014-09-07T13:19:20Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I’ve spottily followed the thread in question and I disagree. I think it’s stupid but I think it doesn’t rise to the level of racism. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m unclear on how “One band of primitive savages attacking another” doesn’t rise to the level of racism. It strikes me as blowing past the level of racism and raising its racist flag high in the air for all to see. Gotta go with Lefty, Jon. That was Pure D racism and hate speech, and I cannot imagine how you could disagree. Yours was a bizarre statement I wouldn’t expect from you. Sure, in wartime emotions can get very hot and strong, but we, _especially_ you mods, have to stay above that shit. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-equality-of-the-iraki-savages-and-the-avoidance-of-racist/697711.md?page=2)