# The Essential Music Library: Opera/Choral music **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 7, 2005, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867 "2005-11-07T04:06:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/1 "2005-11-07T04:06:56Z")
The Essential Music Library project is an attempt to get the many musical minds of the SDMB to sit down and discuss what works are absolutely necessary for a well-stocked musical library. There will be roughly 20 threads detailing a variety of genres so that we can get the depth that would be missing from a single-threaded discussion and the breadth necessary to cover what’s out there. This thread’s topic is opera. Previous threads: [Project Planning](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=335665) | [Classical](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=336834) | [Rock](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=337956) | [Jazz](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=339051) | [Modern Rock](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=340081) | [The Blues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=341203) | [Punk/Post-Punk/New Wave](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=342310) ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/2 "2005-11-07T04:18:31Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > The Essential Music Library project is an attempt to get the many musical minds of the SDMB to sit down and discuss what works are absolutely necessary for a well-stocked musical library. There will be roughly 20 threads detailing a variety of genres so that we can get the depth that would be missing from a single-threaded discussion and the breadth necessary to cover what’s out there. > > This thread’s topic is opera. > > Previous threads: [Project Planning](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=335665) | [Classical](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=336834) | [Rock](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=337956) | [Jazz](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=339051) | [Modern Rock](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=340081) | [The Blues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=341203) | [Punk/Post-Punk/New Wave](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=342310) Any CD that has Kiri Te Kanawa singing “O Mio Babbino Caro.” ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/3 "2005-11-07T06:11:20Z")
Solid recordings of _Don Giovanni_ and _Die Zauberflote_. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/4 "2005-11-07T06:39:50Z")
“The Marriage of Figaro” is great. And if you’re willing to include just overtures, go with a disk of Rossini’s. If you had to pick a full opera by him, probably either “William Tell” or “The Barber of Seville.” ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/5 "2005-11-07T09:05:23Z")
Well, the only opera that I take out and listen to repeatedly is _Nixon in China._ ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/6 "2005-11-07T09:48:27Z")
What do you mean by opera? Is it just “people singing to music” or does it exclude oratorios and choral stuff and the like? ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/7 "2005-11-07T10:36:18Z")
The segment of _Carmina Burana_ that everyone has heard. Queen’s _Bohemian Rhapsody_, for a modern take. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/8 "2005-11-07T12:29:16Z")
And everyone’s 70s favorite…_Jesus Christ Superstar_! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/9 "2005-11-07T13:09:16Z")
A few of those that would be on my essential list: Bizet’s Carmen: I enjoy Francesco Rosi’s movie version of that. Britten’s Peter Grimes: there are several good versions of that. Almost anything by Wagner. Yes, he;s differeent, and not everyone’s favourite, but it’s hard to avoid him. The Flying Dutchman is one of the more accessible ones, but you really need the Mastersingers of Nuremberg, the Ring of the Nibelungs and Parsifal. And for something lighter: I love Offenbach’s Orpheus in the Underworld. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/10 "2005-11-07T13:15:04Z")
The Pearl Fisher. It’s simply beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/11 "2005-11-07T13:30:26Z")
_La Boheme_ _Turandot_ _Carmen_ _Aida_ _Don Giovanni_ _Madame Butterfly_ I cant do anything with the Germans. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/12 "2005-11-07T15:04:09Z")
**Marriage of Figaro Carmen Madama Butterfly** ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/13 "2005-11-07T15:38:46Z")
> [@csharpmajor](#): > > What do you mean by opera? Is it just “people singing to music” or does it exclude oratorios and choral stuff and the like? I think there’s a pretty standard notion of what’s an opera and what’s not. I’m content with [AMG](http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&token=ADFEAEE4781ED948A97520CE992D4DDABD7DF529D64CEE831F29461BDFBA3C54851472F353F28C93FDFB74AB7EB0FD2EA45F43D2CAE455FBD6643A2DFC93&sql=73:7545)’s take on it: > [@](#): > > An opera is a dramatic work in which the dialogue is sung (usually in its entirety) rather than spoken. ---
**Author:** ![av8rmike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@av8rmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/av8rmike)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/14 "2005-11-07T16:06:38Z")
> [@](#): > > An opera is a dramatic work in which the dialogue is sung (usually in its entirety) rather than spoken. So, that _does_ exclude oratorios, cantatas, and other vocal music that does not have staging, characters, and libretto? Will there be another thread for those? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/15 "2005-11-07T16:13:11Z")
But that still depends on what “dramatic” means. If you’re just listening to a recording, there isn’t much difference between an opera and an oratoria; the difference is in the staging. However, oratorios, masses, etc. were mentioned in the “Classical” thread, so maybe that’s a reason to leave them out here. But are we including operettas? musicals? rock operas? (eg. what about Gilbert & Sullivan? Gershwin’s _Porky and Bugs_? Bernstein’s _West Side Story_? the Broadway musicals of, say, Rogers & Hammerstein?) ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/16 "2005-11-07T16:18:40Z")
Just to keep it simple, let’s expand this thread to cover other kinds of choral music. Could someone please report this post and ask that the thread title be changed to “The Essential Music Library: Opera/Choral Music” and that the second paragraph in the OP be changed to “This thread’s topic is opera and choral music.”? ---
**Author:** ![Figaro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ea666f/32.png) [@Figaro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Figaro)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/17 "2005-11-07T16:45:53Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > I think there’s a pretty standard notion of what’s an opera and what’s not. I’m content with [AMG](http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&token=ADFEAEE4781ED948A97520CE992D4DDABD7DF529D64CEE831F29461BDFBA3C54851472F353F28C93FDFB74AB7EB0FD2EA45F43D2CAE455FBD6643A2DFC93&sql=73:7545)’s take on it: [amg editor hat] Thanks! (although there are important exceptions to that rule…like the original Opera Comique version of Carmen, etc…) [/amg editor hat] If we’re talking _truly_ pared down and essential, here’s my list, from early stuff to contemporary: (this is off the top of my head, so I’ll probably find something missing as soon as I post…) - **Claudio Monteverdi** : either _Orfeo_ (preferably conducted by Emmanuel Haïm, or John Eliot Gardiner) or \*L’incoronazione di Poppea \* (there’s an awesome live version starring David Daniels that is hard to find…but it’s my favorite) - **Georg Frideric Handel** : \*Giulio Cesare \* (Julius Caesar) no particular recommendation - **W. A. Mozart** : Gotta have both \*Don Giovanni \* and _Le Nozze di Figaro_, _Cosí fan tutte_ is equally great, but less “perfect” in it’s way, so it’s optional. Personally, I think no one does \*Giovanni \* and _Figaro_ better than John Eliot Gardiner on a purely musical level, but the singing is not to everyone’s taste, and he tunes down a half step on period instruments. If you want a grander and more conventional sound, try Georg Solti. ``` (if you want to branch out with Mozart a bit, try one of his serious operas - I'd start with *Idomeneo*. They're a very different experience.) ``` - **Gioachino Rossini** : \*The Barber of Seville \* and any one of his serious operas, like _Semiramide_. If you dig the Barber, also try _The Italian Girl in Algiers_, etc. - **Donizetti** : \*The Elixir of Love \* and _Lucia di Lammermoor_. My favoriete Elixir is Roberto Alagna’s on Erato (very early in his career - very fresh). Don’t have one for Lucia. - **Vincenzo Bellini** : either _Norma_ or _La Sonnambula_. Go with Maria Callas, whatever you do. You won’t regret it as long as you don’t stumble into a live performance recorded from the 10th row on someone’s tape recorder. - **Georges Bizet** : _Carmen_. Domingo is a good starting point when looking for a recording. - **Jules Massenet** : _Werther_ and _Manon_. Seriously beautiful stuff. - **Giuseppe Verdi** : The big man. Gotta have lots. _Rigoletto_, _Aida_, _La Traviata_, _Otello_, and _Falstaff_ would be my picks for the essentials. I won’t waste a page of space trying to recommend my favorites… - **Richard Wagner** : I’m going to go bare-bones here and just recommend hearing _Tristan and Isolde_. It encapsulates everything that was innovative about Wagner and contains the famous “Liebestod”. Some might think the Ring Cycle is necessary, but I think it’s overkill. _Parsifal_ and _Die Meistersinger_, as well as the \*Flying Dutchman \* are all indelibly great, but we’re making a small list here… - **Ruggero Leoncavallo** : _I Pagliacci_ Whatever recording you buy is likely to come bundled with \*\*Pietro Mascagni’s \*\* _Cavelleria Rusticana_, so if you get both you’ll be well covered for the turn-of-the-century verismo style. - **Giacomo Puccini** : Gotta have _La bohème_, _Tosca_, and _Madama Butterfly_. Anything else of his is exponentially less popular. If you haven’t heard these operas - you will like them. No one doesn’t. (ok, there has to be someone out there…) - **George Gershwin** : _Porgy and Bess_. Go with Simon Rattle. And yes, Porgy is an opera, not a musical. People argue about it, and there was a broadway version, but it deserves to be here. - **Modest Mussorgsky** : _Boris Godunov_ - **Peter Tchaikovsky** : _Eugene Onegin_ - **Claude Debussy** : _Pelleas et Melisande_ -Maurice Ravel: _L’enfant et les sortilèges_ - **Sergey Prokofiev** : _The Love of Three Oranges_ - **Kurt Weill** : \*The Threepenny Opera \* and _Street Scene_. - **Benjamin Britten** : _Peter Grimes_. I’d also recommend _The Turn of the Screw,_ _A Midsummer Night’s Dream_, _Billy Budd_, and _Albert Herring_, but _Grimes_ was the breakthrough work. - **Gian Carlo Menotti** : _Amahl and the Night Visitors_ is the only one that gets played often, though it is arguably not as good as some others. - **Samuel Barber** : _Vanessa_ - **Carlisle Floyd** : _Susanna_ - **John Adams** : _Nixon in China_ - **Philip Glass** : _Einstein on the Beach_. It’s long… brain dying…must stop now…(but there is lots of new stuff I’d like to recommend. Maybe later…) ---
**Author:** ![av8rmike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@av8rmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/av8rmike)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/18 "2005-11-07T16:54:20Z")
Just so I’m actively contributing and not just being pedantic. 😉 Look no further than the Italians: (choose one of each) The essential works of Giacomo Puccini: _La Bohème, Madama Butterfly, Tosca, Turandot_ Guissepe Verdi: _Aida, Falstaff, Otello, Rigoletto, La Traviata_ Gioachino Rossini: _Il Barbiere di Siviglia, L’Italiana in Algeri_, and maybe _La Cenerentola_. I’d disagree with labelling _Guillaime Tell_ as “essential” because despite being Rossini’s best-known overture, the opera itself is excessively long, demanding on the performers and audience, and generally not well-liked, which is why it is infrequently performed nowadays. Pietro Mascagni: _Cavalleria Rusticana_, which is, unfortunately, his only well-known opera. I’ll do another one for German opera later, but I want to mention one of my recent favorites, Engelbert Humperdinck’s _Hänsel and Gretel_. It was essentially an opera for children, but at the time a rebellion against the Wagnerian style of gods and heroes and Norse legends. [This](http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?comp_id=179790&bcorder=8&opera=Y&name_id=56506&name_role=3) is a particularly good recording. **Thudlow** , I think there will be another thread for musicals later. But “Bohemian Rhapsody”? Just… no. And, on preview, **Figaro** covered just about everything I could have, and more. ---
**Author:** ![Feydeau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df788c/32.png) [@Feydeau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feydeau)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/19 "2005-11-07T18:22:31Z")
Are we getting into recommendations of specific recordings? If so: **Carmen** conducted by Sir Thomas Beecham, with Victoria de los Angeles in the title role. (Yes, I’ve heard the Callas recording. She’s overblown and too full of herself, but that’s an entirely different thread.) If not, ignore this post. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867/20 "2005-11-07T18:53:08Z")
There really isn’t much in the way of Russian opera, but since _Boris Gudinov_ has been mentioned, let me put in a word for _Prince Igor_, by Alexandr Borodin. If you’re going to include light opera, there are the “Big Three” from Gilbert & Sullivan: _H.M.S. Pinafore_, _The Pirates of Penzance_, and _The Mikado_. And I would give honorable mention to my personal favorite, _The Gondoliers_. In the non-English section we have _Die Fledermaus_ by Johann Strauss and _The Merry Widow_ by Lehar. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-opera-choral-music/329867.md?page=2)