# The Essential Music Library: Punk/Post-Punk/New Wave **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 31, 2005, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673 "2005-10-31T03:35:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/21 "2005-10-31T18:12:48Z")
What this conversation needs is some pop-punk! You can cover it with a set of the Lookout Samplers and an album each by **The Queers** , **The Mr. T Experience** (Milk Milk Lemonade, maybe?), and **The Groovie Ghoulies**. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/22 "2005-10-31T18:14:52Z")
More new wave: Gary Numan: The Pleasure Principle ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/23 "2005-10-31T19:09:05Z")
**The Name of this Band is the Talking Heads** and **More Songs About Buildings and Food** by the Talking Heads **Double Nickels on the Dime** by the Minutemen is the best album to come out of the American Hardcore scene of the early 80’s. Strangely enough, it’s not very hardcore in the screams-and-fast-beats tradition. **Walk Among Us** by the Misfits, however, does the best job with those cliches. (If you can find **Legacy of Brutality** for cheap, pick it up for “Where Eagles Dare”, which contains the best possible delivery of the line “I ain’t no goddamned son of a bitch.”) And in order to understand all of punk rock, you absolutely must own **The Stooges** , **Fun House** and **Raw Power** by Iggy and the Stooges and **The Idiot** by Iggy Pop. **Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo!** and **Freedom of Choice** by Devo are for my money the definitive “New Wave” albums. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/24 "2005-10-31T19:17:03Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > This thread’s topic is punk and its immediate descendents,… Speaking of… **Descendents** - _Milo Goes To College_. Haven’t found anything better yet. ---
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/25 "2005-10-31T19:39:25Z")
> [@party store](#): > > Subgenre time… > > Everybody Loves Emo! > > Jawbreaker - 24 Hour Revenge Therapy > Sunny Day Real Estate - Diary > The Get Up Kids - Something To Write Home About > Jimmy Eat World - Clarity, Bleed American > Fugazi - The Argument > The Promise Ring - Nothing Feels Good > Dashboard Confessional - The Swiss Army Romance > Taking Back Sunday - Tell All Your Friends > Brand New - Deja Entendu > Cursive - The Ugly Organ > Rites of Spring - Rites of Spring Take out Dashboard and I agree. But to put in something Dashboard-esque while still retaining some cred - add Christie Front Drive, Sunny Day Real Estate, or Boy’s Life. And 30 Degrees Everywhere from Promise Ring instead of Nothing Feels Good. I’ll just ignore Taking Back Sunday and Brand New… ---
**Author:** ![seosamh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@seosamh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seosamh)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/26 "2005-10-31T22:11:47Z")
> [@Waterman](#): > > Second on the punk side would be the Sex Pistols and _Never Mind the Bullocks Here’s …_ I didn’t know they were into livestock! I would certainly agree with many of the choices already stated. But would like to add a couple of personal favourites: **The Lurkers** - Shadow/Love Story (single) or Fulham Fallout (firty-free) **The Ruts** - Babylon’s Burning **Slaughter & The Dogs** - Where Have All The Boot Boys Gone? ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/27 "2005-10-31T22:41:27Z")
Ok. Party Store’s haphazard inclusion of Fugazi in Emo made me weep. Fugazi is one of THE post-punk bands, and should never have the sad sad sandwich board of emo hung round their necks. That said, the Argument is, in my opinion, their best work. Red Medicine (although a little “experimental”) comes in a close second. Other choices (forgive any inadvertent repeats). -Gang of Four- Entertainment (the very beginnings of post-punk. Do beware the end of the CD, where the brilliance fades. But those first 6 tracks…mmm.mmm)–alright this one’s in there upon second breeze, but needs a seconding. -Stiff Little Fingers- Nobody’s Heroes -Bad Religion- All the mentioned albums are good, but I throw my hat in the ring for “Against the Grain.” -Cocksparrer- “Shock Troops/Running Riot” Amazing British punk band that got gifted to me in the 90s, although they’re much older. I went to their reunion tour to find fans weeping. So that’s saying something. -Drive Like Jehu- s/t (very noisy, very post-punk. Members went on to form Hot Snakes & Rocket from the Crypt. Not for everyone—damn distorted and discordant at times—but if that’s your thing, this is your band) -The Undertones (depending on your definition)- The Very Best of the Undertones -Violent Femmes- s/t- again, this depends on your definition. I just think you can still be punk with an acoustic guitar. -At the Drive-In- In Casino/Out - Classify this how you want, but it belongs here somewhere. Those immediately spring to mind as the brightest of the bright not yet mentioned (or mentioned twice now). London Calling, IMHO, takes the cake as one of the best (fill in your genre) albums of all time, so I’ll remention that one too. To a lesser extent, I’ll nominate some of the following, which, while not necessarily seminal albums in the movement, have been on my mind recently: -the Exploding Hearts (they died up here in a van crash, but their first and only CD is brilliant—pop punk) -Les Savy Fav- tongue in cheap post-punk. One of the best shows around -GBH- City Baby Attacked By Rats…think that’s the album title. Or the song. Anyway, that song is amazing. I’ve been singing it for days. Descendants & Rites of Spring already there, with the albums I would’ve chosen. I’ll mention the Dead Kennedys “Plastic Surgery Disasters” as my favorite. Phew. That was fun. I look forward to buying some of the ones above I’ve never heard of. So long, paycheck. ---
**Author:** ![parthenokinesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/cc9497/32.png) [@parthenokinesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/parthenokinesis)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/28 "2005-10-31T22:45:31Z")
On the new wave front how could we forget Rio by Duran Duran ---
**Author:** ![Birdmonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71e660/32.png) [@Birdmonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Birdmonster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/29 "2005-10-31T22:51:44Z")
Also, let me mention that the list was superb before I got here & that most of the first stringers were gone. I’m not trying to be the “I know this hip band and you don’t” guy (we all hate that guy), it’s just that I could only drop a few albums in here that even deserve to have the title “essential” attached to them. Just my 2 cents about my 2 cents. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/30 "2005-11-01T00:52:12Z")
I’m not sure exactly where the line between this category and Modern Rock falls. But in the Modern Rock thread I mentioned > [@](#): > > There are some (sub)genres that maybe ought to show up somewhere in a representative collection, but I’d be hard pressed to single out a particular album or artist: > > metal/pop metal (e.g. Def Leppard, Van Halen, Guns n Roses) > > radio-friendly arena rock (e.g. Journey, REO Speedwagon, Styx) > > MTV-friendly 80s New Wave (e.g. Duran Duran, Eurythmics, Culture Club, Men At Work) > > British pop-ska (e.g. Madness, the Specials, the English Beat) (as well as specific selections by Elvis Costello and XTC, who have shown up here), to which **ultrafilter** (the mastermind behind these threads) replied > [@](#): > > I think all of those will fit into the punk/post-punk/new wave and metal threads. So, for the sake of completeness, I’m reposting here. None of the ones I mentioned have much punk to 'em (well, maybe some of the ska bands a little), but maybe at least the latter fit here as “New Wave.” ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/31 "2005-11-01T03:24:41Z")
For the Punk to New Wave crossover: Everything by **Gang of Four** up to the album “Mall”. A good place to start with this band is **A Brief History Of The Twentieth Century** ---
**Author:** ![party\_store](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@party\_store](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/party_store)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/32 "2005-11-01T03:28:39Z")
I’m going to further my uncoolness by adding Blink 182’s Enema of the State and The Offspring’s Smash. It would be silly to ignore the popular end of of pop-punk, and these are undoubtedly classic records of the genre. You can substitute Dude Ranch for Blink-182 if you’d prefer something a little less poppy. Now… comments about emo. > [@](#): > > _Originally Posted by Birdmonster_ > Ok. Party Store’s haphazard inclusion of Fugazi in Emo made me weep. Fugazi is one of THE post-punk bands, and should never have the sad sad sandwich board of emo hung round their necks. That said, the Argument is, in my opinion, their best work. Red Medicine (although a little “experimental”) comes in a close second. Despite hipster assertions to the contrary, emo doesn’t have to be a dirty word. Fugazi is post-punk, but emo is a post-punk form of music. Fugazi is closely tied to the '80s DC scene with bands like Rites of Spring and Minor Threat, and hence I thought their inclusion in an emo list was fair enough. If I’d been making a post-punk list, I would have put Fugazi there, too, but post-punk had been reasonably well covered by the time I got to the thread. > [@](#): > > _Originally Posted by myskepticsight_ > Take out Dashboard and I agree. But to put in something Dashboard-esque while still retaining some cred - add Christie Front Drive, Sunny Day Real Estate, or Boy’s Life. And 30 Degrees Everywhere from Promise Ring instead of Nothing Feels Good. I’ll just ignore Taking Back Sunday and Brand New… I was trying to provide a primer for emo as a subgenre of punk/post-punk. Dashboard is undoubtedly necessary here, both in that its by far emo’s most successful act and probably the most readily associated with emo. Or, as Spin writer Andy Greenwald writes in _Nothing Feels Good: Punk Rock, Teenagers and Emo_, “More than anyone else affilliated with the burgeoning emo scene, it is [Chris] Carraba [of Dashboard] who is the breakout star, a poster-boy combination of artistry, looks, and charisma.” Or this conversation the author has with Jimmy Eat World, from the same book: > [@](#): > > Zach [Lind] asks what other bands I’ve been talking to and I mention that I’d been having trouble setting up interview time with Chris Carraba of Dashboard Confessional. > > “Why?” says Lind bluntly, looking perplexed. > > “I don’t know,” I say, “I think he’s deciding whether he want to be a part of the book. He’s worried about getting lumped in with a scene.” > > Lind snorts. “Huh. If there’s one guy who should learn to deal with being called emo, it’s Chris Carraba.” Greenwald even prefaces the book with an account of going to a Dashboard show. Dashboard is inextricably linked to emo. A thread on punk that ignored emo could only be doing so for elitist reasons. A discussion of emo that ignored Dashboard could only do so for elitist reasons. I’m ignoring cred, because cred is ridiculous. Besides, The Swiss Army Romance is a great record. As for your other comments - I’ve got Sunny Day Real Estate, I’m happy to add Christie Front Drive and Boy’s Life. I included Nothing Feels Good over 30 Degrees Everywhere because Nothing Feels Good is the quintessential Promsie Ring record; it’s most representative of the group, and in the history of emo, it’s far more iconic than its predecessor. I did a similar thing with The Get Up Kids - I think Four Minute Mile is the better record, but I put in Something To Write Home About because it’s far more significant. That doesn’t mean significance is my only criteria for inclusion, but I think it should be taken into account. Taking Back Sunday and Brand New are there because contemporary emo is centered round New Jersey/Long Island and those groups are at the forefront of that scene in terms of recognition, popularity and artistry. Both the records I included are very good records, and I think the current screamo thing is important enough that it shouldn’t be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Torgo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@Torgo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Torgo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/33 "2005-11-01T03:57:44Z")
Guess how old I am from my list! _Pistols_ **Never Mind the Bollocks** _Ramones_ \*Black Flag \* **The First Four Years** _Dead Kennedys_ **FFFRV** _Minor Threat_ _Kraftwerk_ **Autobahn** _Public Image Ltd._ **Metal Box** _Elvis Costello_ **This Year’s Model** _The B-52s_ _XTC_ **White Music** _Joy Division_ ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/34 "2005-11-01T06:39:26Z")
Descendents - Milo Goes to College At the Drive-In - In Casino Out, Relationship of Command Minutemen - Double Nickels on the Dime Finch - What it Is to Burn And You Will Know us by the Trail of Dead - Source Tags and Codes The Clash - Self-titled (US version), London Calling ---
**Author:** ![Faust\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e56c9b/32.png) [@Faust\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Faust_1)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/35 "2005-11-01T06:50:30Z")
> [@](#): > > -the Exploding Hearts (they died up here in a van crash, but their first and only CD is brilliant—pop punk) I’ll second the Exploding Hearts. Also, Bad Brains have to be on the list. I would pick Black Dots, but there are more popular choices. ---
**Author:** ![revolver\_4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9e5f3/32.png) [@revolver\_4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/revolver_4)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/36 "2005-11-01T07:20:31Z")
My 2 cents. Some more: The Smiths- The Queen Is Dead, Hatful of Hollow Colourfield – Virgins & Philistines The Housemartins – London 0 Hull 4, The People Who Grinned Themselves to Death The Fall – 458489 – A Sides Blue Nile – A Walk Across the Rooftops The Jam – Snap! Jesus & Mary Chain – Psychocandy Joy Division – Substance 1977 – 1980, Unknown Pleasures Kleenex / Liliput Midnight Oil – Diesel & Dust Orange Juice – Rip It Up Pale Fountains – Pacific Street The Raincoats The Stone Roses The Teardrop Explodes The Wild Swans – Bringing Home The Ashes XTC – Oranges & Lemons, Nonsuch Mission of Burma – Signals, Calls & Marches Red Crayola Tuxedomoon Wedding Present – Singles 1989-1991 ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/37 "2005-11-01T08:47:45Z")
> [@Hal Briston](#): > > Descendents - Milo Goes To College. Haven’t found anything better yet. I knew I was missing one. :smack: This Place Sucks was also a great album. Best part was he was a science geek at heart. He (Milo) gave it all up to be a biochemist. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/38 "2005-11-01T18:05:51Z")
I know we are doing albums but I have to admit I honestly have no idea if they ever did any other song that was any good but Martha and the Muffins’ _Echo Beach_ is a perfect little wave gem IMO? ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/39 "2005-11-01T18:37:30Z")
> [@revolver\_4](#): > > …The Fall – 458489 – A Sides… Definitely not the best selection for a band with at least 50 compilations. I’d put my money on \My It’s the New Thing! The Step Forward Years\ ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673/40 "2005-11-01T18:41:11Z")
The soundtrack to _The Decline of Western Civilization_. Greenday - “American Idiot” I definitely agree with Operation Ivy, Minor Threat, Fugazi, The Cure, Joy Division, The Violent Femmes, Husker Du, XTC. Also: fIREHOSE “Ragin’ full on” REM [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-essential-music-library-punk-post-punk-new-wave/328673.md?page=3)