# The ethics of food stamps (AITA?) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 10, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457 "2024-12-10T20:51:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/141 "2024-12-11T18:17:02Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I’m curious what those who suggest this is a purchase that is unethical (per the OP) suggest the guidelines should be. Perhaps a mandated calorie amount per penny spent? Volume of food per penny? Mass of food per penny? I don’t understand what sets caviar apart, aside from the name triggering folks into some sort of reaponse based on the cultural symbolism of the product. I’ll ask again. It’s easy to sit back and judge with an “I know inappropriate spending when I see it” attitude, but what are the rules you’re expecting folks to follow and our government to enforce? Let’s get specific. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/142 "2024-12-11T18:23:45Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Regarded by who? By the politicians who make the rules. I’m speculating on the bizarre thought process behind disallowing certain basic convenience foods. You appear to be making the same argument I am. I don’t believe there should be **any** restrictions on what a food allowance can be used for, and furthermore, that people should be getting equivalent cash instead of suffering the degrading humiliation of “food stamps”. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/143 "2024-12-11T18:33:33Z")
ISTM that some people feel that a person on SNAP buying sirloin steak instead of ground beef is morally equivalent to someone making $10K a month who can’t afford their lifestyle getting monthly support from the taxpayers and then buying a $125K pickup truck. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/144 "2024-12-11T18:37:01Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > OK, here’s the whole conversation: > > I have a half gallon of kimchi in the fridge, a few months old. > I need to eat some along with steamed sushi rice and ahi tuna sashimi. > I just thought yesterday of getting sime caviar with my UHCard. > If Walmart has some; the Ingles chain doesn’t take the card. > There’s a Harris Teeter near downtown Asheville that carries the good, refrigerated stuff in several versions, not the shelf-stable pasteurized. I think that, in this context, you made your position worse. It’s not like your friend was going to buy a big freaking jar of caviar to eat with a spoon (not that I would have a problem with that). But it sounds like he was basically looking for a garnish to an extremely healthy and relatively low cost meal……kimchi and rice are both cheap and nutritious, and tuna is nutritious and not incredibly expensive. It sounds like a delicious healthy meal, and I hope he found his little jar of caviar. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/145 "2024-12-11T18:40:23Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > You appear to be making the same argument I am. I don’t believe there should be **any** restrictions on what a food allowance can be used for Exactly. We can talk about choices that keep people in poverty and the poverty mentality and go all Ramsey on them and victim-blame them for not learning fiscal responsibility. We could even be aholes about it and say poverty is the consequence of their decisions for buying pre-cut stew meat rather than cutting it themselves so their fault. But none of that gets past the facts that it is their decisions to make not ours. And let’s throw this out there. The friend in the OP is making deviled eggs for a Thanksgiving party. He is ashamed he is on SNAP so to hide it, he put just a bit of caviar on each egg (honestly, I might try that my next time). So he buys cheap-ass caviar just this once so he can take pride in what he is sharing out of his meager food. Why should anyone that is not a jerk have a problem with this? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/146 "2024-12-11T18:41:39Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I just thought yesterday of getting sime caviar with my UHCard. I missed this the first time. What is exactly is a UHCard? Depending on the answer, your friend may not have been using SNAP benefits at all. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/147 "2024-12-11T18:44:44Z")
Here’s what I _think_ it is: > **[OTC and healthy food credit with Medicare plans\] | UnitedHealthcare](https://www.uhc.com/medicare/shop/dual-special-needs-plans/otc-food-utilities-benefits.html)** > > A monthly credit to help pay for OTC products and healthy food. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/148 "2024-12-11T18:48:51Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Force the purchaser to advertise the fact that they’re poor and relying on welfare, the consequent humiliation being regarded as a fair _quid pro quo_ for getting a free handout. This is in line with some politicians delighting in making any kind of social assistance as onerous, cruel, and degrading as possible. This ended at least 20 years ago. Now , the benefits are on an EBT card that doesn’t look any different to the other customers than a debit or credit card. And the customer can swipe it ( at least in my state) so the cashier won’t know either ( not unless there is some sort of problem with the purchase) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/149 "2024-12-11T18:49:05Z")
I want food aid to be spent on food, but I don’t want any government resources whatsoever wasted on defining which foods are treats. No alcohol or tobacco of course, otherwise don’t over-enforce. Caviar is nutritious, and not always expensive! If someone blows their entire SNAP budget on caviar and doesn’t have enough other food to eat, that’s their problem, they’ll learn. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/150 "2024-12-11T18:50:07Z")
If it is, that’s not even government assistance. It’s a benefit of a Medicare Advantage plan. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/151 "2024-12-11T18:54:19Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > And the customer can swipe it ( at least in my state) so the cashier won’t know either ( not unless there is some sort of problem with the purchase) Unless they changed things in the last year, you do need to say “EBT” or something like it to the cashier before swiping, just as you would say “Debit” or “Credit” ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/152 "2024-12-11T18:55:15Z")
Just out of interest, I checked prices at my local Vons. They have 2 oz jars of caviar for $10.99 and $13.99 which are SNAP eligible. Not too expensive for a treat. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/153 "2024-12-11T18:57:05Z")
It could be. It looks as though it could also be a _Medicaid_ benefit: > **[Food, OTC and Utility Bill Credit](https://www.uhc.com/communityplan/dual-special-needs-plans/benefits/food-otc-and-utility-bill-credit)** > > A flexible monthly credit to spend on healthy food, over-the-counter products and pay utility bills is a valuable benefit that helps our dual health plan members. @beowulff ? If you don’t already know, is this something you can find out without coming across as nosey or judgmental? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/154 "2024-12-11T18:58:57Z")
“Food Stamps” (SNAP/EBT) is as much a part of the US government’s agricultural subsidy framework as it is charity. Aside from genuinely helping financially struggling people (especially children who are completely dependent on their parents’ choices), it helps guarantee a market for the USA’s dairy and meat producers. This is also why food distributors get a tax break for donating outdated produce to food shelves: quite aside from the charity, it helps shield distributors from the risks of overstocking perishables. Really it’s a win-win and far less a burden on the taxpayers than the stupendously expensive Medicare or national security outlays. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/155 "2024-12-11T19:02:28Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > This ended at least 20 years ago. Good to know, thanks. The frequent reference to “food stamps” suggested to me that something like it was still in effect. But if it just works like a credit or debit card, how do they enforce the ridiculous restrictions on what you’re allowed to buy with it? > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > And let’s throw this out there. The friend in the OP is making deviled eggs for a Thanksgiving party. He is ashamed he is on SNAP so to hide it, he put just a bit of caviar on each egg (honestly, I might try that my next time). So he buys cheap-ass caviar just this once so he can take pride in what he is sharing out of his meager food. Why should anyone that is not a jerk have a problem with this? Grocery stores don’t necessarily categorize their merchandise as finely as some of these government restrictions. Yes, we’re in full agreement. And to complicate things further, there’s fake caviar, like kelp caviar, that comes in all the same varieties as the real stuff but is much cheaper. Should this be allowed or not? The simple answer is that it shouldn’t be anybody’s business what they spend their food allowance on. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/156 "2024-12-11T19:02:32Z")
Well, he characterizes it as “public benefits,” but I’m not going to pester him as to which program it actually falls under. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/157 "2024-12-11T19:03:12Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I once knew a farmer who benefitted from an ag program that paid farmers NOT to grow crops. Did he have a son named Major Major Major? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/158 "2024-12-11T19:06:48Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > But if it just works like a credit or debit card, how do they enforce the ridiculous restrictions on what you’re allowed to buy with it? It is built into the computer system. I thought at first that I had to separate non-food items (toilet paper, paper plates, laundry detergent) when paying with EBt. I learned to just let the cashier scan all items. I would pay with EBT. The computer would then come up with the remaining total for non food stuff. ETA I once bought cognac-filled chocolates at anothe Russian market, along with a bunch of other foods. I expected that since they contained alcohol they would not be covered. They were. A few months later, all the local channels had a news story on how that store had been hit with substantial fines for letting people use EBT for items that should not have been covered. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/159 "2024-12-11T19:11:00Z")
Do you know if this person is age 65+? We could probably infer from that. ETA: or deemed Social Security disabled ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2024, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457/160 "2024-12-11T19:13:12Z")
I don’t know. For reasons too complicated to get into here, I get a portion of my retirement social security deposited into a special debit card, instead of into my bank account. I can use the card anywhere debit cards are accepted, and it works exactly like any other debit card. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-food-stamps-aita/1011457.md?page=9)