# The Ethics of "My Octopus Teacher" \[Possible Spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 1, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157 "2021-04-01T14:20:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/21 "2021-04-01T21:29:47Z")
> [@FigNorton](#): > > So my question would be: is he going to get the octopus into any bad habits with his interaction? He starts bumming cigarettes off the director about halfway through the movie. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/22 "2021-04-01T21:30:35Z")
Here is another documentary done by a naturalist who spent 7 years as a friend to a herd of mule deer: [Touching the Wild](https://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/touching-the-wild-video-first-encounter-with-a-young-buck/8775/). With the mule deer, he is able to gain their trust while they are still fearful of other humans. They allow him to pet and scratch them, and be near their young. By getting so close to them, he is able to gain detailed insight into their thinking and behavior, which was really interesting. Ethically, I think he crossed the line by giving members of the herd human names, and becoming emotionally attached to some of them, like pets, even though they are still wild animals. In the end he gives up his journey with the herd because I think even he knew he was getting too attached, especially as one of his deer “friends” is taken by hunters right in front of him. As with Octopus Teacher, I do not think either’s presence with the other caused any harm, and it was interesting to see the interactions. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/23 "2021-04-01T22:51:52Z")
I’ll make my point more clear. He was not in a “wilderness area”. He was in an area where fishing is allowed, including the taking of marine invertebrates. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/24 "2021-04-01T23:21:30Z")
WTH? “Wilderness area” and “where fishing is allowed” are in no way mutually exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/25 "2021-04-01T23:29:21Z")
Yes, you’re right, it does appear to be in the MPA, but not in the “no take” zone. Rules for MPA’s are pretty light. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/26 "2021-04-01T23:33:07Z")
My point is, it’s a little odd to be wondering if it’s morally OK for this dude to have been letting an octopus interact with him, when there is a fishery for this animal that harvests 35,000 tons per year. At around 1kg per octopus, that’s about 35 million of these ending up on tables per year. I’m OK if a guy makes a film where one of them interacts with him. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2021, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/27 "2021-04-01T23:41:38Z")
Oh that’s your now fully clarified point? Lol. Are you fron South Africa? I personally wouldn’t know much about the rules of their MPAs. Regardless, it’s an extremely poor point. The ethics of the fishing industry is not the ethics of a documentarian. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/28 "2021-04-02T13:42:28Z")
Should we also talk about the ethics of octopuses attacking humans? > **[Man comes face-to-face with angry octopus in rare attack | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/octopus-australia-angry-scli-intl/index.html)** > > Octopuses are normally playful and inquisitive, but an Australian man saw another side to the marine creatures when one defended its home aggressively. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/29 "2021-04-03T16:15:47Z")
> [@FigNorton](#): > > Regardless, it’s an extremely poor point. The ethics of the fishing industry is not the ethics of a documentarian. I disagree, I think my point is valid. It’s about context. We’re talking about whether or not it is ethical for a film maker to observe an invertebrate, and to let that invertebrate reach out and touch him (In the film, he waited to let the animal come to him, he never reached out to touch it). It’s perfectly valid to look at the context of the situation, and some of the context is that _Octopus vulgaris_ is a short-lived animal that is the subject of an intense fishery that captures millions of them for the table each year. What is the overall harm that the filmmaker caused? How does this harm compare to the harm caused by harvesting millions of these animals? Does the benefit of the film (awareness of the ocean and of this animal) outweigh any harm that the filmmaker caused? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/30 "2021-04-03T17:22:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I expect that kelp forest near Simons Town isnt a Ocean sanctuary You expect wrong. It very much is a Marine Protected Area. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/31 "2021-04-03T17:26:43Z")
Octopuses are semelparous, she was dying anyway. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I do not believe any filming happened in a MPA. Like ctnguy said, it was in an MPA - all of the Cape Peninsula is an MPA. More importantly, it was actually the part of the MPA around Cape Point - also part of the Table Mountain National Park proper. But having said that, there’s nothing morally wrong with what he did. Octopuses are naturally curious, and there’s nothing wrong with just interacting with one in the wild, IMO. > [@ctnguy](#): > > don’t know exactly where this was filmed, but it is described as “near Simon’s Town” which means that it is actually very likely to have been filmed in the Table Mountain National Park MPA It was in the actual Cape Point part of the NP, from what I could see. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2021, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/32 "2021-04-03T22:53:40Z")
Yes, this was pointed out earlier that is likely in a MPA, altho the description is a little vague. But a MPA isnt the same as a Sanctuary. Fishing is allowed and common but with permits limits, etc. > **[Table Mountain National Park Marine Protected Area](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_Mountain_National_Park_Marine_Protected_Area)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > The Table Mountain National Park Marine Protected Area is an inshore marine protected area around the Cape Peninsula, in the vicinity of Cape Town, South Africa. It was proclaimed in Government Gazette No. 26431 of 4 June 2004 in terms of the Marine Living Resources Act, 18 of 1998. > The MPA is of value for conservation of a wide range of endemic species, and has considerable economic value as a tourist destination. It encloses a large number of r... ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/33 "2021-04-04T01:22:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Like ctnguy said, it was in an MPA - all of the Cape Peninsula is an MPA. Yes, I stand corrected. And I agree with the rest of your post. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/34 "2021-04-04T01:23:33Z")
thanks for the link and clarification. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/35 "2021-04-04T09:04:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But a MPA isnt the same as a Sanctuary. Fishing is allowed and common but with permits limits, etc. Are you _seriously_ trying to Yank-splain _my own city_’s protected areas to me? I know what an MPA is. I also know where the Restricted parts of this particular MPA are, and can recognize them in a film when I see them. ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/36 "2021-04-04T19:15:54Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > What is the overall harm that the filmmaker caused? How does this harm compare to the harm caused by harvesting millions of these animals? Your reasoning would seem to allow for basically anything short of wholesale slaughter of the species as ethical. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/37 "2021-04-04T19:41:45Z")
You live in Simons Town? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/38 "2021-04-04T20:12:22Z")
Guy, just …don’t. You’re just showing _more_ ignorance of what the City of Cape Town is. I’ll wait while you look _that_ one up on Wikipedia… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/39 "2021-04-04T20:27:52Z")
OK, yes, but Simons Town is different than Cape town. So you live in Cape Town? Great. And how was I supposed to know that? It no longer shows up you know. I have to actually click on your name to see it. Your first post here was to tell me I was wrong by saying it wasnt a sanctuary. It isnt one, but as you said is it a MFA, which is not a sanctuary. Why not say _“hey, I live in Cape Town and I know that MFA”._ So, yes, I apologize if it seemed like I was explaining a MPA just for you and only you. **Euphonious\_Polemic** Appreciated the link. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2021, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157/40 "2021-04-04T20:42:29Z")
Wait, MrDibble is from South Africa? Next thing you know someone will claim to be from Spain… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ethics-of-my-octopus-teacher-possible-spoilers/939157.md?page=3)