# The Euro -- Further Fallout Of Iraq War In U.K. Politics **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 15, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-euro-further-fallout-of-iraq-war-in-u-k-politics/175424 "2003-05-15T12:57:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2003, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-euro-further-fallout-of-iraq-war-in-u-k-politics/175424/21 "2003-05-17T00:20:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Vetch \* > \*\*ruadh, > I think you are giving too much credit to the British public. If they are looking at anything it’s the “Sun” newspaper and page 3. > \*\* And the Sun is warning of the inflation risk. QED. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-euro-further-fallout-of-iraq-war-in-u-k-politics/175424/22 "2003-05-18T15:14:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*And the Sun is warning of the inflation risk. QED. \*\* Not that I look at it, but Page 3 does seem to manifest ample evidence of artificially-induced inflation . . . . ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-euro-further-fallout-of-iraq-war-in-u-k-politics/175424/23 "2003-05-18T15:30:30Z")
**Huerta88** missed out the main (and IMO the only real) objection to UK adoption, which is surrendering interest rate control from the Bank of England to the ECB. From what I’ve seen, the BoE does roughly follow the underlying ECB rate, but about 0.5% higher. To take the UK economy’s interest rate down half a percent would fuel inflation, and the BoE would no longer be able to set the rate specific to the UK economic situation, but rather the overall European situation. This should, in theory, even itself out over a decade or so, but the change would be painful, and if there were some unforeseen economic disaster in the UK, the UK would be powerless to help itself. As **ruadh** mentioned, the changeover in Ireland caused inflation as prices were rounded up - by a lot - and the ECB interest rate is way too low for the current appalling rate of inflation, so it’s adding fuel to the fire, and there’s nothing that the Central Bank of Ireland can do either. Having said that, I am pro-UK-into-the-Euro, just for exports and simplicity’s sake, but it’ll hurt for several years. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-euro-further-fallout-of-iraq-war-in-u-k-politics/175424/24 "2003-05-18T15:34:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Huerta88 \* > \*\*Not that I look at it, but Page 3 does seem to manifest ample evidence of artificially-induced inflation . . . . \*\* _Round of applause._ ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-euro-further-fallout-of-iraq-war-in-u-k-politics/175424/25 "2003-05-18T18:39:56Z")
\ Huerta88 It seems to me that the Eurocrats are trying to establish the Socialist Republic of Europe. Rather than a minimalist approach, they’re trying for total control. ---
**Author:** ![Fox\_in\_the\_Snow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/82dd89/32.png) [@Fox\_in\_the\_Snow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fox_in_the_Snow)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-euro-further-fallout-of-iraq-war-in-u-k-politics/175424/26 "2003-05-18T22:46:01Z")
> [@](#): > > It seems to me that the Eurocrats are trying to establish the Socialist Republic of Europe. Rather than a minimalist approach, they’re trying for total control. It seems to me you don’t know what your talking about. Read the Daily Mail much? ---
**Author:** ![Duncan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecc23a/32.png) [@Duncan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duncan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-euro-further-fallout-of-iraq-war-in-u-k-politics/175424/27 "2003-05-19T00:47:32Z")
Price transparency isn’t really much of an argument for entering a single currency. What is perhaps of more concern is trade between Europe and Britain being subject to a see-sawing exchange rate that can harm businesses that do a lot of trade with the continent. However, this has to be weighed against: 1. increasing EU integration resulting - qts was actrually quite accurate. We’re not quite in gulags territory but nontheless the EU is a vast sprawling bureaucracy passing law after law on the grounds it knows what’s good for us. The classic case which tends to get dragged out a lot is of course weights and measures - thanks to EU legislation it is possible for British citizens to face prosecution for selling goods in pounds and ounces (plus, metres and litres, whilst very good for science also tend to be poorly understood by shoppers, allowing companies to milk a little more profit from them by giving them less product for their money after switching units). There are no end of crazy laws passed by the EU, but these are fluff compared to how British farmers and fishermen suffer at the hands EU’s common agricultural and fisheries policies (British cod stocks are approaching extinction primarily as a result of the CFP). Oh, and let’s not forget Corpus Juris which is still tip toeing up on us - well who wanted those rights to trial by jury and habeas corpus anyway? Am I making too obvious I don’t like the EU? 🙂 1. Tax harmonisation - the real biggy for a capitalist running dog like myself - I dislike the notion of our taxes soaring sky high to “harmonise” them with Europe and destroy the healthy economy we enjoy as a result of our low (in comparison to Europe at least) taxes. There is a reason why the British economy is doing ok, whilst the rest of Europe have good reason to be pessimistic about the future. I suppose in principle tax harmonisation might not happen, but every paper coming out of Brussels seems to suggest that it will. 2. Ability to set interest rates has already been covered, but if you want an example take a look at Germany which would unquestionably benefit from being able to set its own interest rates at present. Personally I think Britain would be better off getting out of the EU entirely, and setting up a free trade agreement (Britain gets more trade from Europe than it trades to Europe, so it seems unlikely they’d say no). But I suspect this is not going to happen any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-euro-further-fallout-of-iraq-war-in-u-k-politics/175424/28 "2003-05-19T02:21:36Z")
At the end of the Iraq war, I had hopes that Blair would turn away from the EU and join a new Transatlantic free trade alliance - extending NAFTA to Britain, the Vilnius countries, Spain, and whoever else wanted to jump aboard. I have exactly the same fears about the EU as Duncan. It looks to me like it’s becoming increasingly undemocratic, with more and more control being exerted by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. And it’s passing more and more dracconian laws and meddling in the economy of the various countries far too much. And now it’s trying to strongarm the WTO into forcing WTO nations into meeting EU-mandated environmental and labor laws, because the EU has made itself non-competitive. Britain should stay at arms length from the EU, and not give up one iota of its sovereignity to an extra-national organization. In my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-euro-further-fallout-of-iraq-war-in-u-k-politics/175424/29 "2003-05-19T03:50:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fox in the Snow \* > \*\*It seems to me you don’t know what your talking about. Read the Daily Mail much? \*\* Well the “socialist” part is obviously a load of bollocks, but other than that I’d say the basic point is correct. State sovereignty _is_ being eroded in favour of centralised control, which is why many of us who wouldn’t wipe our arses on the Daily Mail are opposed at least to the present (and apparently future) form of the European Union. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-euro-further-fallout-of-iraq-war-in-u-k-politics/175424/30 "2003-05-19T06:46:57Z")
I read widely, Fox, and I stand by the Socialist part. We’re getting Party Lists, Dirigisme, Elitism, the works. No direct election of the European leadership either. ---
**Author:** ![Fox\_in\_the\_Snow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/82dd89/32.png) [@Fox\_in\_the\_Snow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fox_in_the_Snow)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-euro-further-fallout-of-iraq-war-in-u-k-politics/175424/31 "2003-05-19T10:20:00Z")
Allow me to anaylse your comments for just a moment **qts** would you? > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by qts_ > **It seems to me that the Eurocrats are trying to establish the Socialist Republic of Europe. Rather than a minimalist approach, they’re trying for total control.** One assumes by Eurocrats, you mean the European commission yes? You seem to be suggesting that that by joining the Euro the UK will fall under the total control of these evil socalist “eurocrats”. This is a discussion on the Euro, so I assume that is what your are referring to. Now that’s not actually the case is it? > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by qts_ > **I read widely, Fox, and I stand by the Socialist part. We’re getting Party Lists, Dirigisme, Elitism, the works. No direct election of the European leadership either…** We already have the list system of PR here in scotland. I would suggest there is also a fair bit of elitism. Is this because we have already sold out to the socalists or is it because those things are not nessecarily socalist. As far as Dirigisme goes, What? Are you suggesting that the European Economy is or will be soon, under the control of your “Eurocrats” who direct it’s every move? I say again, What? However, yes the lack of an elected leader of the EU is something of a problem, although the fact of the matter is that the various heads of state still pretty much run the show. Also did MR. Blair not put forward a propasal involving the creation of a EU presidency a month or two back. I would suggest that your exaggerated, inflammatory rhetoric actually hurts your case. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-euro-further-fallout-of-iraq-war-in-u-k-politics/175424/32 "2003-05-19T11:53:30Z")
The Euro is the push over the precipice. If the UK adopts the Euro, it will surrender economic control to Brussels. > [@](#): > > As far as Dirigisme goes, What? Are you suggesting that the European Economy is or will be soon, under the control of your “Eurocrats” who direct it’s every move? I say again, What? I say, Beware. I’m all for a free trade area, but economic union? Forget it. And as for being inflamatory, well, I disagree. It is what I see. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-euro-further-fallout-of-iraq-war-in-u-k-politics/175424.md?page=1)