The Evidence Against Religions

When you are claiming to have experienced something that all the evidence says is impossible, then it is possible for me to say that you are wrong with a great deal of certainty. What believers like yourself seem unable to grasp is that saying that God told you something isn’t any more plausible than saying that Rumpelstiltskin told you something. LESS plausible, if anything.

No, it proves that you are willing to claim personal acquaintance with fictional characters. Have you talked with the Snuffalupagas too recently ?

Wrong.

YOU are the one claiming that it happened, not I. The burden of evidence is yours. And you clearly know the answer since you claim to be behind it.

[quote=“Der_Trihs, post:461, topic:478421”]

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All evidence doesn’t say it’s impossible, you say that. If ‘All evidence’ said it was impossible, 90% of the people on this planet would not believe in a Supreme Being - whatever they call Him. I don’t have a relationship with The Virgin Mary, but then, I’m not Catholic. I have friends who are Catholic, and while I find their claims difficult to believe, I wouldn’t dream of telling them they didn’t or don’t interact with The Virgin Mary. I haven’t had that experience, but who am I to say that they haven’t? I have my own opinion about Marian apparitions, (best kept to myself), but since I lack the personal experience, my thoughts on the matter are simply conjecture, just as yours are about YAHWEH and YESHUA. We are ALL limited to and by the boundaries of our experience. By the way, my relationship with The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit runs a great deal deeper than chit-chat. JFYI.

Mark Twain said ‘History is mostly agreed upon lies.’ I believe that about sums up most of humankind’s history accurately. Man has been lying about who won which battle since cavemen learned to scribble on walls. That’s in the physical realm. When we step outside of the physical realm and are dealing with immortal spirit beings who’ve BTDT on EVERY level of EVERY conceivable subject, we are no longer limited to man’s lies. When we come to understand that ‘The TRUTH will set you FREE,’ we realize that the Author wasn’t kidding!

You can’t SAY that Der Trihs, you just can’t. You CANNOT know the TRUTH about my life any more than I know the truth about yours. GOD is more real to me than anything else in existence, and it’s odd that my husband and some of my children should feel that way too, while three of my children don’t. The fact is we brought them all up the same way (with allowances made for individuality, of course), they’re widely traveled, they’ve ALL witnessed miracles, were home-educated, yet not all of them choose to follow Jesus. They all believe, but that’s no big deal - so does Satan and his demons. My three renegades don’t like being told what to do by anyone - God included, they never did. So, they live a different lifestyle than we do, and in their case it’s just pure rebellion, and not one of those kids is happy with their choice. Sad. My point is that we all lived together for years and yet only SOME of us are victims of this delusion you’ve decided we share. That’s unscientific, Der Trihs, and you’re talking to a doctor, so I believe I’m qualified to say that. I’m certain I’m far more familiar with delusional states than you are, unless, of course, you’re a medical professional too.

No, I claimed I sent someone to do it and asked you whether they did it OR NOT. This is on the same level as ‘There is no spoon,’ and we could have had fun with it if you weren’t so angry (frustrated?) with people who believe in God and with Christians in particular, it seems.

Why are you so militant when it comes to GOD? What d’you care what people believe if you think it’s all nonsense? If I believed as you say you do, I wouldn’t waste my time and energy upsetting myself over someone else’s life choices and beliefs. Why do you?

I’d like to take this discussion to some sort of conclusion with you, or at least find a ledge whereupon we can rest it. I have to go tend to my husband now though, but look forward to your response tomorrow. Sleep on it, I promise you’ll learn something by answering the question. It is NOT my intent to make you appear foolish - that’s just not my style.

Have a nice evening (hope it’s evening where you are) Der Trihs.

Love - Jesse.

Um, you asked me to name a specific belief and I explained that IT JUST HAPPENED IN THIS THREAD. All that was required of you was to read and understand the few very short posts between **DT **and I. Evidently you did miss it. IMO that’s not my failing. I can spell it out for you if that’s what’s called for.

No I’m not. Nobody asked you to get involved in posts that weren’t directed at you. You volunteered your time.

I didn’t mean it that way. I understand that my response to** DT ** might seem abrupt to someone who isn’t aware of his pattern here. I don’t have the time or the interest to search for examples for you. You can do a search and find them yourself if it matters. Check the pit. If not you’ll see for yourself in time.

This must be a mistake. I have no idea what your referring to.

< my underline >

Do you accept the idea of statistical probabilities, Jesse? What sort of odds do you think you would get for the likelihood of an entire family all witnessing a ‘miracle’ at some point? Or are you using the word ‘miracle’ in a descriptive manner that I am unaware of?

Please post proof of the existence of YHWH.

I’m of the school there are three kinds of lies… and statistics is the last one. I am aware of valid statistical studies, I utlize them myself. However, there’s nothing strange about one’s entire family being present at numerous healings, seeing angels - both kinds, and the myriad things that are part of the daily lives of most active Christians. (As opposed to nominal Christians who don’t really have Christ in their lives.)

As far as what you’re aware of, Ivan, how would I know that? :confused: Hint, mind-reading isn’t usually one of my gifts. :wink:

Love - Jesse.

Why? Can you provide PROOF that YHWH does not exist?

With respect, this is a debate forum. For information dial 411. :wink:

Jesse.

Yes. Baal told me he’s the true God, and YHWH was just made up.

The family of one of my best friends is very religious. Somewhere relatively close (in Ohio, I think), they heard that someone saw a miracle. They loaded everyone (including me) into a van to go down and witness this miracle. Predictably, nothing happened. I’m sure they would say otherwise.

All this can go over if you can offer up your proof of god, yahweh, or whatever it’s called. Making the claim that a supernatural being, that has no cause, that is invisible, except to some people that happened to believe in it, is a bold claim. It’s actually the talk of crazy folk that you’d pass by on the street, yet they’re lent no credence. Unfortunately, saying that you’ve witnessed miracles is fine and dandy. Saying that angels have looked over you and touched you is wonderful. Unfortunately, that amounts to the ramblings of that same crazy person that you’d pass on the street.

That’s the very point that makes this painful for everyone involved. If there’s proof, then we can commence. If not, well, then this is a moot point where one side simply an’t deliver the goods that they’re promised.

I guess I gave your reading and comprehension too much credit. I referred to a very specific post as your dogma according to the Webster definition . That’s the example. It was right there all along. I didn’t refuse anything.

I thought the example was perfectly obvious given the limited posts. I also gave the reason it’s wrong. It’s one more of your sweeping generalizations about religion that doesn’t match the evidence.

I was talking about a very specific detail and you responded with generalities. That’s misdirection. If your latest tortured logic is that unless someone can prove God exists you win all religious arguments by default I call bullshit with a capital B.

That would be the kindest term. My view of religion isn’t as simplistic and cynical as yours.

I agree. You don’t see.
First, I acknowledge that there is no objective evidence that God exists. That doesn’t mean all religion is baseless. One does not necessitate the other. Besides that you make assertions of fact and then rather than prove yours you insist others must prove something to you. My understanding of the SDMB tradition is that the person who asserts something as fact is the one expected to provide evidence. Your tactic is no different from the believer who asserts God exists and then challenges you to prove he’s wrong. You’d ridicule someone for that kind of crap while you don’t seem to mind using it yourself.

[quote=“Least_Original_User_Name_Ever, post:469, topic:478421”]

I’ve never “gone to witness a miracle” anywhere, anytime. I realize there have been reported cases of masses seeing a miracle, such as at FATIMA and like that, but I have not experienced that kind of phenomenon in my own life.

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Well, the prophet Ezekiel walked around naked, some people might call that crazy. I’ve been called crazy re: God-related subjects for thirty-five years. It goes with the territory when one is a missionary.

Who told you that YAHWEH has no ‘Cause’? YHWH has a definite Purpose and Plan.

Who told you that God is invisible? That’s patently untrue.

I’m not in the business of ‘Offereing up proof of God.’ YHWH Himself says, **“I am perceived by the things made.” ** Whether you believe that or not is a private matter between you and GOD.

I never promised YHWH to anyone. No human can. I can testify about God and Christ, but it will either be experiential or Bible-based, and neither one of these is considered valid on this forum.

I have a personal relationship with The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. However, since it is a personal relationship it won’t be of much use to you. You need to seek YHWH yourself, as 'Everyone seeking Him finds Him.’ God makes that promise, I don’t, but I’ve never seen it fail - ever.

God isn’t lost or far away and His Laws have been written on your heart by Him Personally. He isn’t difficult to find.

May God bless your journey toward Him.

Shalom Aleichem - Jesse.

All evidence, like the laws of physics, DOES say it’s impossible. And the fact that a majority believes doesn’t make it any more plausible; especially since they don’t agree with each other; claiming that it does is a logical fallacy.

No, it doesn’t since they are either imaginary or long dead. And your friends aren’t actually interacting with a millennia dead semi-fictional woman. I don’t need personal experience with them to disbelieve evidence-free impossibilities.

Religion isn’t “the truth”; it’s a really ridiculous set of lies and delusions. Not even high quality lies. And there’s zero reason to believe in “immortal spirit beings”.

When you start claiming impossibilities, I don’t need to know you to disregard them. I wouldn’t believe you if you claimed to be able to fly by flapping your arms, either.

Assuming that you actually are a doctor ( and I certainly wouldn’t want you treating me ), so what ? That doesn’t make you an authority on impossible creatures. And it’s hardly “unscientific” for only some members of a family to suffer mental problems.

Because of the sheer evil and stupidity caused by believing in God, and religion in general.

All you are doing is claiming that your family are especially gullible. There aren’t any miracles, and there aren’t any healings. Just scams and delusions.

And I REALLY am glad that I’m not your patient, if you actually believe in faith healing.

It’s your job to provide evidence, not his to prove a negative. Although the known laws of physics go a fair way towards disproving your fantasies.

Can you provide any evidence at all for it existing ? Or even being possible ? Not even proof , but just evidence ? Of course not.

And since my position is that it’s all nonsense, of course that means I win.

Of course it does. Provide evidence otherwise. You won’t, because such evidence doesn’t exist.

They aren’t at all the same. It’s the job of the person claiming something exists to come up with evidence for it. And my claim that God doesn’t exist doesn’t violate any physical laws, unlike claiming that God does. And so on; atheism is simply far more plausible, far more logical, and requires far fewer assumptions.

You and your fellow believers just want religion to have a privileged intellectual position; if someone clams that the Moon landing is a hoax they are mocked because they have no evidence, and it makes no sense. But we are supposed to ignore the fact that religion has no evidence, and makes even less sense. Of course, this is because no religion can survive skeptical scrutiny.

What does being a doctor have to do with anything? Someone could be brilliant one field, like neurosurgery but be totally credulous when it comes to believing in nonsense like god, the Loch Ness Monster or that NASA faked the moon landings.

There are many brilliant people who do not know how to think skeptically.

[quote=“Jesse_Leigh, post:471, topic:478421”]

Fatima? Is that the place where the sun danced? The place where the pilgrims were instructed to look into the sun and it seemed to move? The sun didn’t move. The sun is a fixed thing. It didn’t move.

If you’re not in the business of offering up the proof of god, then you should stop professing to know that god exists. Experiential and Bible-based stuff isn’t good enough here because those are arbitrary writings of people with an agenda. “God exists because god wrote this book and said so” is no reason at all.

I have the same relationship with god that I do with the Easter Bunny.

Boy, you’ve got it bad, don’t you? One of the better brainwashing jobs I’ve ever seen.

And we are still waiting for you to post proof of the existence of this YHWH of which you speak.

You always know it’s a good thing when God speaks directly to you.

(And let me just note that finding that many examples was not difficult.)

That last one must be a put on. That really happened in a town called Knutby?

That’s not how it works. You can never provide proof for the nonexistence of something. I say there are tiny trolls living in my closet. Can you provide proof they don’t exist?

Besides, you’re the one making the claim that something exists, therefore, by definition, it’s up to you to do the proving.

See, God does exist and he’s ironic. :smiley: