# The ex-felon vs the two drunk douchebags **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 15, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696 "2011-10-15T00:51:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/301 "2011-10-18T23:22:20Z")
Sounds like they didn’t get to [Ride the Ride](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azcRIXoXFVc) ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/302 "2011-10-19T00:48:18Z")
I blame it all on the decline of table manners. It started when the Americans stopped holding their forks correctly, and has worsened as more an more implements (ranging from dishes to metal bars) are incorrectly used as weapons in restaurants. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/303 "2011-10-19T00:52:52Z")
I killed a man once by shoving a blooming onion down his throat. I blame it on the Aussies. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/304 "2011-10-19T01:25:05Z")
They’ll take my spork when they pry it from my cold dead hands. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/305 "2011-10-19T03:30:31Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Yes, it would be disingenuous to say that was all they did - but I didn’t. They did trespass and were the aggressors. But the entirety of the actual assault was two slaps, one from each woman. They might well have done more if he hadn’t hit them away - which is why nobody’s saying he shouldn’t have defended himself - but that is all they actually did in the assault itself. That’s the only element of the _battery._ Everything that impeded his ability to move freely was part of the assault, most especially chasing him behind the counter. Where precisely the assault ended is the issue. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/306 "2011-10-19T03:51:55Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > You don’t seem to think it was self defense either; you think they just deserved it. Nobody has even disagreed with you about what they deserved. When you slap a guy in the face and there’s two of you and you follow him back into a private area of his workplace, if you get your ass kicked you had it coming. That doesn’t mean there’s nothing wrong with the guy hammering your skull into a new shape. He isn’t the guy who decides. OK, perhaps I’m just projecting, then. I’m not a tough guy; I avoid physical confrontation. Hell, I’ve never been in a fight in my life. But I have experienced the “fight or flight” response, and one of two things happen to me: either I become ultra-focused where the world goes into slow motion and every move of mine is controlled and rational, or I depersonalize and do _anything_ to remove the stressor, with no regard for what is rational, tempered or not. I’m not going to argue that the guy probably went overboard. But I also think were I in his position, I can’t say with confidence that I too wouldn’t have gone overboard, or even worse. That may very well make me a psychopath/sociopath if you want, but the adrenaline response does some weird-ass shit to people. I feel the mental state of someone in that situation should be taken into consideration. The most I would slap him with is anger management classes. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/307 "2011-10-19T20:17:06Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I guess you are, then. Because if I slapped a cashier and then jumped the counter to attack him and got wailed on and my skull broken, I would say I totally deserved it. But that’s a minority view, it seems. You’d merit getting hit, yeah, but not when you were already down on the floor. > [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Look around the thread. This opinion is not a minority. This opinion is the Bill O’Reilly of opinions. > > You also won’t find any claims that the guy overreacted from the perspective of what the attackers _deserved_. People earn all kinds of terrible treatment. That doesn’t license everybody to go out dispensing it, because we have a whole official system set up where a guy with a wooden hammer sits there and presides over a special personal trial to determine what you deserve. Which we generally have agreed is a better system than letting a felon with a shillelagh decide. **magellan** (who incidentally would _deserve_ at least a slap for most of his posts to this board, but who obviously shouldn’t be subjected to such treatment by another person, because that would be fucked up) has even specifically denied that this was about punishment. What he and other people are arguing here is that this was self defense, which a few of us have been suggesting doesn’t really fit. > > You don’t seem to think it was self defense either; you think they just deserved it. Nobody has even disagreed with you about what they deserved. When you slap a guy in the face and there’s two of you and you follow him back into a private area of his workplace, if you get your ass kicked you had it coming. That doesn’t mean there’s nothing wrong with the guy hammering your skull into a new shape. He isn’t the guy who decides. Thanks for saving me some typing. > [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > You know, I don’t think I argue or debate well and I can almost always see both sides to almost any argument anyway. I consider myself too wishy washy because of this. > > But the more I think about this situation, the more right I feel that the cashier should not just not go to jail, but he should also get his damn job back. > > I mean really, this poor guy shows up to work his minimum wage job. He obviously works in an area that is sketchy. He has a past that probably adds to how nerve wracking it is to do this shitty ass job in the first place. But he’s paid his fucking debt to society and he’s trying to do the right thing. Part of his job description is to check for fake money. So for showing up at a shitty job for shitty money and probably no benefits, he gets slapped and then chased just for doing his fucking job that he would probably would have lost anyway if he’d failed to check the fucking bill. > > No, no jail time for him. And give him his fucking job back if he even wants it. > > so there thpppt I feel kinda sorry for him too, because he didn’t start this shit, but he did pause and then start hitting them again. He’s not an innocent victim. > [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > That’s the only element of the _battery._ Everything that impeded his ability to move freely was part of the assault, most especially chasing him behind the counter. Where precisely the assault ended is the issue. Going behind the counter counts as assault (or a continuation of an assault)? And does that burger joint only have an exit via the counter? Well… if something like that counts as assault, then how can hitting someone on the floor not also count as assault? ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/308 "2011-10-19T21:37:51Z")
From today’s court appearance > **[Women Beaten by McDonald's Cook Verbally Abused Workers, Witness Testifies](https://www.dnainfo.com/20111018/greenwich-village-soho/women-beaten-by-mcdonalds-cook-verbally-attacked-workers-witness-says/)** > > Rayon McIntosh was caught on video attacking two unruly women at the West 3rd Street McDonald's on Oct. 13. \*The manager replied he did not want any trouble before Darbeau began to rip into McIntosh as he brought her food order to the counter where she and Edwards were standing. “F–k you — I hope you get deported. Your mother’s a b–ch,” Darbeau allegedly told McIntosh, according to the witness. “So then he replies, ‘No, your mother is a b–ch,’ and she smacks him.” The slap can be seen in the video footage just before the attack escalates. Joseph testified that McIntosh started walking away to the back of the kitchen and was taken by surprise when Darbeau leapt over the counter to chase him.\* ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/309 "2011-10-19T21:39:46Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > You’d merit getting hit, yeah, but not when you were already down on the floor. By “already down” do you mean “getting back up”? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/310 "2011-10-19T21:48:36Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > From today’s court appearance > > [http://www.dnainfo.com/20111018/greenwich-village-soho/women-beaten-by-mcdonalds-cook-verbally-attacked-workers-witness-says](http://www.dnainfo.com/20111018/greenwich-village-soho/women-beaten-by-mcdonalds-cook-verbally-attacked-workers-witness-says) I found this section of the story a bit disturbing: > [@](#): > > Video of the incident, which rapidly spread online, was played in court, but the excerpt did not include the moment as the women jumped over the counter. Prosecutors blamed the missing footage on a glitch in the recording. So, the prosecutors just happened to omit the piece of the video that provides the most support to a claim of self-defense, and this was just a technical glitch. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/311 "2011-10-19T22:05:23Z")
What a freak show of dysfunctional fuck-ups – all three of them. I’m for opening up a “Win a date with Denise” website. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/312 "2011-10-19T22:30:40Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > So, the prosecutors just happened to omit the piece of the video that provides the most support to a claim of self-defense, and this was just a technical glitch. :dubious: Yeah, it’s gonna be one of THOSE trials. I don’t even care anymore whether he crossed the line or not, he’s being railroaded and that’s a problem with the justice system that will affect EVERYONE these prosecutors charge in their careers if they aren’t severely reprimanded. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/313 "2011-10-19T22:32:24Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I found this section of the story a bit disturbing:So, the prosecutors just happened to omit the piece of the video that provides the most support to a claim of self-defense, and this was just a technical glitch. :dubious: Maybe he will get convicted, then it will get overturned shortly after, then he sues the city/state for misconduct, gets a couple million and doesnt have to work at McDonalds anymore 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/314 "2011-10-19T22:51:03Z")
The comments following that article are interesting. Interestingly MOST people think the beatdown was self defense. If thats representative of the jury pool things are looking good. this ass whooping “i’m loving it” was pretty funny. As was “Mcbeatdown” Oh and it sounds like these two women have records of their own. And one works with mentally disabled children?!!! ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/315 "2011-10-19T23:35:43Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Maybe he will get convicted, then it will get overturned shortly after, then he sues the city/state for misconduct, gets a couple million and doesnt have to work at McDonalds anymore 🙂 It’s worth noting that this wasn’t the trial. This was just a hearing to see if they could hold him while the presented the case to a Grand Jury. I’m sure the full video will be shown at the trial; i just don’t like prosecutors who do shit like this, because it demonstrates a willingness to game the system. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/316 "2011-10-19T23:41:57Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I found this section of the story a bit disturbing:So, the prosecutors just happened to omit the piece of the video that provides the most support to a claim of self-defense, and this was just a technical glitch. :dubious: No, \ ***Prosecutors acknowledged Tuesday that the women triggered the fight by taunting the staff and then leaping over the counter.** “There’s no question that Ms. Darbeau acted in a totally inappropriate manner,” Assistant District Attorney Jamie Mendoza said. “Not only did she curse out the hardworking employees at the McDonald’s working the graveyard shift, **but then she did go over the counter into an area which is prohibited to the public**.”\* ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/317 "2011-10-19T23:45:52Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > No, > > \ ***Prosecutors acknowledged Tuesday that the women triggered the fight by taunting the staff and then leaping over the counter.** > > “There’s no question that Ms. Darbeau acted in a totally inappropriate manner,” Assistant District Attorney Jamie Mendoza said. “Not only did she curse out the hardworking employees at the McDonald’s working the graveyard shift, **but then she did go over the counter into an area which is prohibited to the public**.”\* Yes. What i put there was a direct quotation. The prosecutors failed to show the part of the video where the woman jumped the counter. They did acknowledge that the woman jumped the counter, but they just happened to fuck up the part of the video that showed this happening, in a hearing where they were asking for more time to present the case to the Grand Jury. If i can see her jumping the counter on countless YouTube and news sites, you’d think the prosecutors could have got it right for the trial. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/318 "2011-10-20T00:05:13Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > It’s worth noting that this wasn’t the trial. This was just a hearing to see if they could hold him while the presented the case to a Grand Jury. > > I’m sure the full video will be shown at the trial; i just don’t like prosecutors who do shit like this, because it demonstrates a willingness to game the system. I know thats why I said representative 🙂 If the folks commenting on the article are locals and this is how many of the locals feel then things are looking up IMO. I agree with you that this is crap. Sounds to me like that are trying to stick it to him anyway they can while giving the bitches an easy legal ride. I still want to know why these women arent charged with actual assualt (which IMO is undeniable no matter how you slice it). And why not throw in public drunkeness because it sounds like they were drunk too. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/319 "2011-10-20T00:08:21Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > If i can see her jumping the counter on countless YouTube and news sites, you’d think the prosecutors could have got it right for the trial. Trial? When was that? You ever have a glitch when you either recorded or played something? That’s all that happened. No big conspiracy going on. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/320 "2011-10-20T00:17:57Z")
> [@LurkerInNJ](#): > > Trial? When was that? > > You ever have a glitch when you either recorded or played something? That’s all that happened. No big conspiracy going on. When the most critical piece of evidence available thats been seen by probably 10 of millions is fucked up, and my 8 year old niece could probably find it in 30 seconds on her hello kitty cell phone, at the very least thats pretty fucking embarassing. Also, showing the last part WITHOUT showing the first part gets people mad first. I hope the defense raised holy fucking hell and asked for a brand new grand jury pool or something like that. Its like me telling you I found your wife fucking the mailman, then LATER I tell you the extenuating circumstances that lead up to it. It just aint the same as getting the whole story right from the get go. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696.md?page=17)