# The ex-felon vs the two drunk douchebags **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 15, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696 "2011-10-15T00:51:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/121 "2011-10-15T19:45:08Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > TBH, those of you who think that was a wonderful thing for him to do: you’re fucking psychos. Absolute pathetic people with serious malfunctions in your perception of the world. Fortunately I suspect most of you are also too physically weak to enact your violent fantasies. Jump over our counters and find out. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/122 "2011-10-15T19:52:53Z")
That’s why I keep my office door locked – I don’t want to be faced with being assaulted or having to defend against allegations that I crossed the line while being assaulted. (I have had a fellow try to break through my door to get at me, and another fellow shot out the front door concerning a person who worked upstairs.) I very much would not want to work at the till of a fast food shack, gas station, or variety store in a rough neighbourhood. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/123 "2011-10-15T20:22:31Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > It’s hitting them when they were down that’s the problem. Pause, wait (a few seconds is long enough), hear coworkers shouting stop, hit the people on the ground again. Sam, best will in the world, do you have any idea how much experience of brawling you tend to need, or martial arts training, before you actually hear any noise in the background of a fight as something distinct against the roar of your own blood and the roll of background noise? Honestly, other than a very tiny subset of people with personal issues, we all hate fighting. The reason most martial art training is based around repetition of movement is because you can rely on muscle memory to step in when your conscious mind is in gridlock. For most people to make the switch to violence is just that, a switch. You’re putting people into a position they don’t want, demanding them to behave in a way they don’t want…and then expecting that they be controlled when they lose their social conditioning. It is entirely possible for a person with no overtly destructive tendencies to react in a manner such as this, right up to the massive levels of overkill. Of course this guy could be a complete psycho, or he could be a person who just wigged out when panicked, or he could be someone nursing some post traumatic experiences from his prison time…but the one thing that is certain here is that he did not start this sorry affair. The two girls didn’t deserve the level of beatdown they received, but they are the ones who instigated it. And being blunt, I think the world would me a much more canny place if people appreciated that anything they start might have very serious consequences. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/124 "2011-10-15T20:33:57Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Bullshit. There is a difference between giving it everything you have in a fight when you are defending yourself and having no mercy on a fellow human who has clearly been bloodied and defeated. This. Beat someone down during the fight. OK. Yell and talk trash after the fight. OK. Smash someone with a metal bar after the fight is over. NOT OK. That’s a lot different from calling them asswipes and giving them a short kick in the ass. It’s closer to attempted murder, or at the least aggravated assault. ---
**Author:** ![drillrod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@drillrod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drillrod)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/125 "2011-10-15T23:02:44Z")
Looking at the video again, he beats them down and pauses. We then see a flash or arm or back, indicating that at least one of the females is getting back up and the second round of strikes with the rod begins. His co-worker intervenes and he pauses a second time. The camera then focuses more on the co-worker and the hysterical blonde. It’s not seen why he begins the third round, but I’d guess that at least one of them tried to get up again. I’m not cheering his actions, but I believe his defense, and not necessarily an unreasonable one, will be that he kept beating them back down when they tried to get back up. We’ve likely all seen videos of police officers using tasers to subdue suspects. Typically, the officer will activate the taser and tell the suspect to stop resisting and to lay there. They will then pause and, if the suspect tries to stand back up, tase them again. Lather, rinse, repeat until the suspect stops trying to get back up. Once the suspect complies, the tasing stops. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/126 "2011-10-15T23:36:12Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I agree, and said so in the other thread… What other thread? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/127 "2011-10-15T23:49:17Z")
I’m going to make you click twice since it was linked to in the very reasonable [**second post**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14359488&postcount=2) of this very thread that you obviously ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/128 "2011-10-16T00:58:13Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > This. Beat someone down during the fight. OK. Yell and talk trash after the fight. OK. Smash someone with a metal bar after the fight is over. NOT OK. > > That’s a lot different from calling them asswipes and giving them a short kick in the ass. It’s closer to attempted murder, or at the least aggravated assault. Agreed. For some reason this vid (and the inevitable associated poopyheads claiming it’s all self defence and wholly justified because the people getting their skulls beat in are “bad people” who started it) reminds me of the Ersland case. I think you’ll find that in \*that \*case, the jury opined that attacking people on the ground who pose no threat whatsoever is not self-defence any more by any stretch of the imagination. But apparently, lessons were not learned. Oh well, tough guys gotta be tough :rolleyes:. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Conqueror_Worm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/129 "2011-10-16T02:03:55Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Oh well, tough guys gotta be tough :rolleyes:. And the weak feel free to sit in judgement. Such is life. I hope you are never attacked. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Conqueror_Worm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/130 "2011-10-16T02:14:31Z")
I have to add that I’m still rather astounded that nobody other than I has addressed the issue of the slant of the news report. If the cashier had been a blond and pretty young woman it would have begun “a young and brave woman staved off an attack tonight.” And nobody on this board would have disapproved of what happened. In fact, I am willing to guarantee that all the naysayers in this thread would be applauding her as a hero. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/131 "2011-10-16T02:21:49Z")
> [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](#): > > And the weak feel free to sit in judgement. Such is life. I hope you are never attacked. Watch out man. Two internet tough-guys in the same room… Keep your distance from Terr, you two might reach critical mass and collapse into a neutron-vagina. The densest form of pootie known. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Conqueror_Worm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/132 "2011-10-16T02:25:41Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Watch out man. Two internet tough-guys in the same room… Keep your distance from Terr, you two might reach critical mass and collapse into a neutron-vagina. The densest form of pootie known. I’m not an internet tough guy. In truth I am the sort that probably would have stepped between the cashier and the women on the ground bellowing “ENOUGH.” But I don’t expect you to believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/133 "2011-10-16T02:28:39Z")
> [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](#): > > I’m not an internet tough guy. In truth I am the sort that probably would have stepped between the cashier and the women on the ground bellowing “ENOUGH.” But I don’t expect you to believe that. I believe it. Because most people are decent when it comes down to it. I withdraw my neutron-vagina comment. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Conqueror_Worm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/134 "2011-10-16T02:38:26Z")
Thank you for that Lobohan. Do know that I would also be bellowing as loudly to the women on the ground to stay there. For what it is worth I have this “command voice” that comes out sometimes. When it does it even scares me a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/135 "2011-10-16T04:18:05Z")
> [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](#): > > I have to add that I’m still rather astounded that nobody other than I has addressed the issue of the slant of the news report. If the cashier had been a blond and pretty young woman it would have begun “a young and brave woman staved off an attack tonight.” And nobody on this board would have disapproved of what happened. In fact, I am willing to guarantee that all the naysayers in this thread would be applauding her as a hero. For the _last goddamn time;_ **of course** the story would be received in a completely different light had the McDonald’s employee been a woman. That would have been a completely different dynamic; it would have been one armed _woman_ defending herself against two unarmed _women_. A whole lot more sympathetic and understandable than an armed _man_ “defending” himself against two unarmed women. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/136 "2011-10-16T04:21:34Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > For the _last goddamn time;_ **of course** the story would be received in a completely different light had the McDonald’s employee been a woman. That would have been a completely different dynamic; it would have been one armed _woman_ defending herself against two unarmed _women_. A whole lot more sympathetic and understandable than an armed _man_ “defending” himself against two unarmed women. Wow. I pity the feminists. More than a century of effort wasted. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/137 "2011-10-16T04:36:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Wow. I pity the feminists. More than a century of effort wasted. I’m simply discussing human physiology here, I’m sure any feminist would agree. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/138 "2011-10-16T04:43:52Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Wow. I pity the feminists. More than a century of effort wasted. I pity the people who have to deal with your insipid nonsense in person. Anything that has been said about beating up women can be equally said about beating up anyone weaker than you. Those silly bitches were on the short side of 5’6", pointing out that they’re small and much, much weaker than your hero, the felon isn’t sexist. You, sir are what is wrong with America. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Conqueror_Worm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/139 "2011-10-16T04:44:22Z")
la la la ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/140 "2011-10-16T04:46:31Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I’m simply discussing human physiology here, I’m sure any feminist would agree. I’m a card carrying feminist who deals with domestic violence as part of my job, and I agree. When it comes to what is or is not reasonable in defending against an attack that does not involve weapons, a significant difference in size makes one hell of a difference. In general, women are smaller than men, so in general what is reasonable will differ. Always differ because they are women per se? No. Just usually differ because they are usually smaller. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696.md?page=8)