# The ex-felon vs the two drunk douchebags **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 15, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696 "2011-10-15T00:51:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Conqueror_Worm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/161 "2011-10-16T06:56:48Z")
Muffin, you broke a cane over your knee? I would like to know what wood it was made of. I actually teach a cane fighting system and want to tell my students to never buy a cane made of that wood. By the way, the cane stuff really has nothing to do with the topic of this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/162 "2011-10-16T07:17:40Z")
> [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](#): > > Muffin, how close to real violence have you ever been? Fortunately, very little. As an adult, mugged, shot at while in a plane, had a fellow come across a table at me during negotiations, and had a fellow try to break through a door to get at me. I don’t pretend to know much about fighting other than that you have to assume that the assailant may be bat shit crazy and keep trying to come at you. It doesn’t take any great knowledge to recognize that the fellow at McDonalds could have safely backed away and found refuge elsewhere in the building once he had thrashed the assailants to the ground with the metal bar. As far as whether or not he was mentally capable of recognizing that he should have backed off, I have covered that in a previous post. Would I have backed off? Yes, for although I don’t have any experience in fighting, I have a significant amount of experience in being in situations where I have expected to not survive, and have learned about how I react and think under in such situations. Now you tell me, at what levels of court have you represented people charged or convicted of assault or murder? How many times have you been in court and observed your client or another person’s client plead self-defence and go down in flames? What experience do you have in pleading self-defence? What have you learned from your experience in fighting about the all important difference between the subjective test and the objective test? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/163 "2011-10-16T07:29:12Z")
> [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](#): > > Muffin, you broke a cane over your knee? I would like to know what wood it was made of. I don’t know type of wood it was made of. It was solid (as opposed to something hollow like bamboo ski poles or laminated like modern wooden canoe paddles), but whether it was a hardwood or a softwood, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Conqueror_Worm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/164 "2011-10-16T07:30:17Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Now you tell me, at what levels of court have you represented people charged or convicted of assault or murder? How many times have you been in court and observed your client or another person’s client plead self-defence and go down in flames? What experience do you have in pleading self-defence? What have you learned from your experience in fighting about the all important difference between the subjective test and the objective test? I am not an attorney, nor am I claiming to be one. Are you offering up a legal opinion here? My students still want to know what the cane you broke over your knee was made of. How long should I tell them they must wait? It’s pretty obvious you haven’t read my previous responses to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Conqueror_Worm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/165 "2011-10-16T07:32:46Z")
Apologies for posting too quickly. I’m impressed that you were able to break a solid wood cane over your knee. You must have been very angry. Perhaps so angry you didn’t even know what it was you were doing? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/166 "2011-10-16T07:42:04Z")
> [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](#): > > I actually teach a cane fighting system and want to tell my students to never buy a cane made of that wood. In white water paddling, solid hardwood shafts of hickory or ash gave way to wood and epoxy laminates, which in turn gave way to aluminum, which in turn gave way to pvc wrapped with fibreglass or kevlar and epoxy. To put it in perspective, my wood laminate shafts and aluminum shafts lasted a couple of years on average, whereas the pvc/glass wrapped shafts that I presently use are over fifteen years old. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Conqueror_Worm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/167 "2011-10-16T07:45:28Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > In white water paddling, solid hardwood shafts of hickory or ash gave way to wood and epoxy laminates, which in turn gave way to aluminum, which in turn gave way to pvc wrapped with fibreglass or kevlar and epoxy. To put it in perspective, my wood laminate shafts and aluminum shafts lasted a couple of years on average, whereas the pvc/glass wrapped shafts that I presently use are over fifteen years old. Erm… we are talking about walking canes. It does one well to stay on topic even though it has drifted away from the main topic of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/168 "2011-10-16T07:46:38Z")
> [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](#): > > Apologies for posting too quickly. I’m impressed that you were able to break a solid wood cane over your knee. You must have been very angry. Perhaps so angry you didn’t even know what it was you were doing? Nope. I was not angry. I just figured that it would help get the point across that she must not keep whacking at people. A solid wood cane (or at least the cane my grandmother had) is not hard to break at all. No different than breaking kindling over one’s knee for the campfire. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/169 "2011-10-16T07:50:01Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > All along the way, no one ever had to thrash her with a cane. Too bad none of the people she took a swipe at fighters who could defend themselves by beating her to a pulp. Or perhaps not. Maybe if someone had beat her ass 20 years earlier for pulling that shit maybe she wouldnt have had to move so often. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Conqueror_Worm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/170 "2011-10-16T07:56:52Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Nope. I was not angry. I just figured that it would help get the point across that she must not keep whacking at people. A solid wood cane (or at least the cane my grandmother had) is not hard to break at all. No different than breaking kindling over one’s knee for the campfire. You must be pretty hardcore then. I have a 1" hickory cane at hand and even with my training I wouldn’t try to break it over my knee. I tip my hat to you sir or madam. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Conqueror_Worm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/171 "2011-10-16T07:59:09Z")
I still would like to know if you were offering up a legal opinion in post number 162. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/172 "2011-10-16T07:59:32Z")
Well if you want a walking cane that cannot be snapped easily, find one with a pvc core wrapped in composite. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/173 "2011-10-16T08:01:24Z")
> [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](#): > > I still would like to know if you were offering up a legal opinion in post number 162. Sure. The fact of whether or not he was still at risk after he floored them is debatable. The law in New York that a person must not continue to thrash someone once that person is not longer a threat is not debatable. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/174 "2011-10-16T08:01:31Z")
> [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](#): > > Apologies for posting too quickly. I’m impressed that you were able to break a solid wood cane over your knee. You must have been very angry. Perhaps so angry you didn’t even know what it was you were doing? Prisons are full of people who got so angry they didn’t even know what they were doing. That is a good thing. Severe anger management issues/impulse control issues never got anyone off the hook - in fact, I’d wager they’re more the kind of factor that makes juries opine warrant confinement away from civilized society. Nobody wants to live around a violent loose cannon. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Conqueror_Worm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/175 "2011-10-16T08:04:16Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Well if you want a walking cane that cannot be snapped easily, find one with a pvc core wrapped in composite. So if I sent you the cane I have on hand you would be able to break it? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Conqueror_Worm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/176 "2011-10-16T08:06:20Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Prisons are full of people who got so angry they didn’t even know what they were doing. That is a good thing. > > Severe anger management issues/impulse control issues never got anyone off the hook - in fact, I’d wager they’re more the kind of factor that makes juries opine warrant confinement away from civilized society. Nobody wants to live around a violent loose cannon. I’ve been drinking and so am rather slow, who in the matter at hand do you think is the loose cannon? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/177 "2011-10-16T08:12:13Z")
> [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](#): > > I’ve been drinking and so am rather slow, who in the matter at hand do you think is the loose cannon? All three of them. I suppose they could pay their lawyers’ bills by putting on a sanctionned cage fight and charging admission. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/178 "2011-10-16T08:15:08Z")
> [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](#): > > So if I sent you the cane I have on hand you would be able to break it? Beats the hell out of me. (No, wait, that’s the wrong phrase to use in this thread.) I don’t know – it would depend on what the cane was made of. If you are a strong fellow and you can not break it, then I doubt if I could. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@The\_Conqueror\_Worm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Conqueror_Worm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/179 "2011-10-16T08:15:52Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Sure. > > The fact of whether or not he was still at risk after he floored them is debatable. The law in New York that a person must not continue to thrash someone once that person is not longer a threat is not debatable. I have to add this, are you so very certain that the two women not seen because of the counter are not a threat that you would risk your license (I’m presupposing you are a practicing attorney) upon it? ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2011, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696/180 "2011-10-16T08:16:39Z")
I find it pretty lame people are making judgement calls on this guy when they can’t even see what is happening behind the counter. Just because they are “down” **out of view and behind the counter** doesn’t mean they’re not reaching for something or still going after him. I.E. If I was that guy and one of them was going for something in their coat pocket, your damn right I’d keep on beating. Morale of the story, watch who you fuck with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-felon-vs-the-two-drunk-douchebags/599696.md?page=10)