# The ex-slacker superhero and the heroic treason dilemma **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 16, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728 "2015-11-16T19:38:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/41 "2015-11-18T05:04:12Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I think the moral thing for Bob to do is to save the mangani. But I also think he’ll be committing treason if he does so using force, even if he doesn’t kill any Americans. I think he can be _accused_ of treason, but that any reasonably competent lawyer should be able to get him off on a “preventing genocide” defence. I do not consider his actions to actually _be_ treasonous. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/42 "2015-11-18T07:57:16Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I am pro-choice. > > No it’s not a fricking abortion metaphor. > > I think the moral thing for Bob to do is to save the mangani. But I also think he’ll be committing treason if he does so using force, even if he doesn’t kill any Americans. > > ETA: Oh, and the mangani are persons, but not human, I’d say. A woman’s unborn fetus is human but not a person. If they’re persons, then their extermination is genocide. As you say, the moral thing for Bob to do is prevent it, even at the cost of committing treason. If I’m Bob, then the moment the USA decides to attempt genocide is the moment it stops being the USA to which I have pledged my allegiance as a citizen. In fact, as one of the citizens who had opposed the genocide, even without being Bob, I ask him if he’ll bring me to Avalon to stand with the mangani. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/43 "2015-11-18T09:55:08Z")
OTOH, if Bob doesn’t make good on his threat - where does that leave him vis a vis the Russians and Chinese? At that point, where Bob steps aside on orders of the US government, Bob, the world’s only Superhero, is basically declaring himself to be an active agent of the US. If I’m Chinese or Russian, I’m talking to everyone else on the planet about how we need to destroy the US right damn now, while Bob’s distracted and _before_ they get their hands on the magic tech & unobtainium. I think if I were Bob … promises or no, there’s simply no practical way to protect mangini, now that their existance is known. Yes, it’s a tragedy - but it’s a god damn tragedy that we can’t preserve all the other sentient beings on the planet, either. Elephants, Dolphins, Gorilla - they’re all on borrowed time. Long term, the mangini are doomed no matter what Bob does. If I were Bob, I would insist on sectioning off a part of the island for a mangini preserve. It won’t stop the tragedy but it might give them a few more years. And if I were Bob, I would refuse to allow myself to be forced to act as an agent for any one government. If the USA is going to muscle in, I would tell the rest of the planet that my deal is off. They can all do what they want as long as they stay out of the mangini preserve. Either no one gets this stuff or everyone does. The US doesn’t get to use me as a weapon and then ignore my request to save the mangini. Far better for the US to have to maintain their balance of power with the other nations. As Bob, I would have no doubt that some people would call me a traitor, but I’d be too busy auditioning a new foursome to listen. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/44 "2015-11-18T10:29:35Z")
Is the USA not engaging in a war of aggression in this scenario? If so, that’s unquestionably illegal. They are invading for the purposes of conquest territory that is not their own. Are they claiming any right to do so other than “We’ve got the ships, we’ve got the men and we’ve got the legally-mandated acquiescence of the superhero too”? I don’t know if the fact that no other human claims title to or sovereignty over Avalon is enough to let them off the hook for this. It seems like the nearest analogy would be Antartica which was divided up by treaty as a means of forestalling attempts at conquest. That didn’t happen in this case because Bob intervened - it seems that perhaps he should have waited until any attempts at a diplomatic solution had been exhausted. I think Bob should: 1. Fire a shot across the bows of the advancing fleet in order to give them pause.\* 2. Send a clear message that he will use force to prevent this crime taking place. 3. Announce that he is fully prepared to stand trial for his actions, and that his defence in this highly public trial will be that the US government was in clear violation of international law. Also, that he will respect any sentence handed down and if that means staying in jail while criminals and enemies of the state run riot, then so be it. No one is above the law, after all. We’ll just have to all hope that the well-publicised absence of America’s superweapon doesn’t give anyone ideas. \*Is it possible for Bob to prevent the landing/close approach of the fleet without directly attacking them? E.g. a highly localised mega-tornado directly in their path? If so, he should do that. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/45 "2015-11-18T15:22:40Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > I’m curious if it would be possible Bob to extract some of the mineral wealth of Avalon without disturbing the lives of the Mangini? You know, a Kryptonian would make an excellent miner and probably wouldn’t cause near the environmental degradation us normal humans would cause. Problem is we don’t really know what combination of Avalonian factors, including minerals present underground, is what makes it the only place the Mangani can live. You would first have to do the research into what is safe to remove from their world w/o harming them and the late Vanyar had figured there would be no real ethical way to get the Mangani to consent to an experiment(\*). (\* That IS one tricky moral question – how do we deal with consent and agency among sentients who do NOT have equal intellectual capacity as humans) And yes, sure, Bob’s situation IS one of the basic underlying dilemmas _of humanity facing the existence of kryptonian-like beings_. In the end, the enforcement of our moral rules under force of law depends on a social contract that grants the polity the authority for use of force against the individual, but what happens when you have an individual who is invulnerable to \*any \*humanly produced force? As someone mentioned earlier, the commanders of the forces must know going mano-a-mano against Bob is suicidal and most of the grunts are probably praying he does something to just leave them adrift on the water, harmless but alive (the Russians and Chinese, wisely, listened to all the sages and did not go into a war they had lost before it started). For all intents and purposes, under normal circumstances these beings ARE “gods”, we are essentially at the mercy of whether we happen to get one who’s a mensch and not a schmuck, and at some point we WILL face having his/her moral choice be different from ours and we can’t do jack about it. Heck, Bob can voluntarily surrender to be tried after his resistence, and what jail can hold him? But while we’re waiting maybe Bob can also use his superspeed to abduct all those congresspeople, pundits, business leaders, PAC bosses and internet/social media gadflys who led the campaign to approve the despoilage, and plonk them right there on the beach beside him so they can have a front row seat to however things end. ---
**Author:** ![Aangelica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Aangelica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aangelica)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/46 "2015-11-18T16:37:42Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I genuinely do not understand why you feel Bob’s prior declaration of intent matters. If a US national wages war against US military forces on a legitimate mission, he’s committing treason. In this case that treason may be morally justified, but that doesn’t change the fact of what he’s doing. The prior and public declaration matters because it turns Bob’s behavior from “aggression against” to “defense of”. In essence, it turns the situation from Bob waging war against the US to the US waging war against Bob, in which Bob will of course defend himself and the mangani, as he has promised to do. Also I still dispute it’s treason - it may be unlawful, but a good many things are unlawful and not treasonous. Most unlawful things are, in fact, not even remotely treasonous. I can think of any number of unlawful behaviors that are considerably more treasonous than Bob’s hypothetical defense of the mangani, yet which nobody considers treason. Tax evasion, for instance, or gun-running, or drug trafficking. All much more likely behaviors to undermine the government than Bob standing on a beach saying “Please don’t force me to whup the tar out of you guys.” What Bob is doing isn’t seeking to undermine or overthrow the US government. He clearly would be delighted if the US government continued apace, albeit with an altered policy towards the mangani in particular. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/47 "2015-11-18T17:13:41Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > …Announce that he is fully prepared to stand trial for his actions, and that his defence in this highly public trial will be that the US government was in clear violation of international law. Also, that he will respect any sentence handed down and if that means staying in jail while criminals and enemies of the state run riot, then so be it. No one is above the law, after all… This was an issue in the Will Smith superhero comedy/drama _Hancock_. > [@Aangelica](#): > > …Also I still dispute it’s treason - it may be unlawful, but a good many things are unlawful and not treasonous. Most unlawful things are, in fact, not even remotely treasonous. I can think of any number of unlawful behaviors that are considerably more treasonous than Bob’s hypothetical defense of the mangani, yet which nobody considers treason. Tax evasion, for instance, or gun-running, or drug trafficking. All much more likely behaviors to undermine the government than Bob standing on a beach saying “Please don’t force me to whup the tar out of you guys.” What Bob is doing isn’t seeking to undermine or overthrow the US government. He clearly would be delighted if the US government continued apace, albeit with an altered policy towards the mangani in particular. Treason is the only crime actually defined in the U.S. Constitution (Art. III, Sec. 3, cl. 1): _Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court._ Although it would be just and moral to do so here, I think fighting against the U.S. Navy and Marines, and likely causing casualties, would be “levying War” and thus treason. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/48 "2015-11-18T18:48:07Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Is the USA not engaging in a war of aggression in this scenario? If so, that’s unquestionably illegal. I don’t think the US is engaging in war as usually defined. The Vanyar are all dead, and I expect the mangani, looking like chimps as they do, are legally considered animals. The island’s up for grabs. Incidentally – and as I didn’t make it clear in the OP, no one need accept it – I doubt the mangani can speak _English_, or any other human language. They’re like Chewbacca (though not as snart): able to speak their own language (which a human can learn to understand but not vocalize) and able to learn to understand huyman language (but unable to vocalize it, as their vocal apparatus is just shaped wrong to do so. > [@](#): > > \*Is it possible for Bob to prevent the landing/close approach of the fleet without directly attacking them? E.g. a highly localised mega-tornado directly in their path? If so, he should do that. Assuming that’s an actual question rather than a rhetorical one, I will put my OP hat and say no. Bob is not an X-Man; he didn’t spend his childhood training in a holodeck on creative ways to use his powers. And if I were he, I’d be too chicken to practice making tornadoes; that strikes me as something that could easily get out of hand. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Treason is the only crime actually defined in the U.S. Constitution (Art. III, Sec. 3, cl. 1): > > _Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court._ > > Although it would be just and moral to do so here, I think fighting against the U.S. Navy and Marines, and likely causing casualties, would be “levying War” and thus treason. That was my thought as well; thanks for posting it. That said, I’m disappointed that you, in particular, have no commented on the name _Vanyar_. \*\*Baker \*\*caught the Burroughs reference. Hang your head in shame, Tolkien fan! > [@Merneith](#): > > OTOH, if Bob doesn’t make good on his threat - where does that leave him vis a vis the Russians and Chinese? At that point, where Bob steps aside on orders of the US government, Bob, the world’s only Superhero, is basically declaring himself to be an active agent of the US. If I’m Chinese or Russian, I’m talking to everyone else on the planet about how we need to destroy the US right damn now, while Bob’s distracted and _before_ they get their hands on the magic tech & unobtainium. To which somebody is gonna respond, “Um, you realize his mom and husband and adopted daughter and granddaughter live in the US, right? Remember when Bob let that dragon rampage through Tehran for twenty minutes because some psycho was threatening his kid? When he roasted that mobster for threatening his daughter? Attacking the US will probably distract him long enough for us to napalm the mangani forest, but whoever gives or carries out that order is a dead man.” > [@](#): > > I think if I were Bob … promises or no, there’s simply no practical way to protect mangini, now that their existance is known. Yes, it’s a tragedy - but it’s a god damn tragedy that we can’t preserve all the other sentient beings on the planet, either. Elephants, Dolphins, Gorilla - they’re all on borrowed time. Long term, the mangini are doomed no matter what Bob does. > > If I were Bob, I would insist on sectioning off a part of the island for a mangini preserve. It won’t stop the tragedy but it might give them a few more years. I think part of such a decision will depend on whether the Vanyar left records Bob can read. (Which they may not have; it may all be recorded on some sort of psychic gizmo.) If the 20,000 mangani are the remnants of a much larger population, and their apparent thriving was on account of the Vanyar’s stewardship, their extinction may not be far off. I dunno. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > If they’re persons, then their extermination is genocide. As you say, the moral thing for Bob to do is prevent it, even at the cost of committing treason. > > If I’m Bob, then the moment the USA decides to attempt genocide is the moment it stops being the USA to which I have pledged my allegiance as a citizen. > > In fact, as one of the citizens who had opposed the genocide, even without being Bob, I ask him if he’ll bring me to Avalon to stand with the mangani. What are you gonna do but get in Bob’s way? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/49 "2015-11-18T18:57:48Z")
[In this thread from many moons ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=694595)–from after the Arab Spring, but before ISIL-- we discussed whether Bob should intervene the Syrian civil war. The consensus then was that he shouldn’t get involved in such a geopolitical hairball. Why is this thread so different? No human lives are imperiled by Bob’s inaction. ---
**Author:** ![Aangelica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Aangelica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aangelica)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/50 "2015-11-18T19:00:36Z")
Unless I’ve missed it, in the previous thread about Bob, Bob did not have a previous commitment to involve himself in that one. He does have a previous commitment to involve himself in this one. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/51 "2015-11-18T19:42:53Z")
> [@Aangelica](#): > > Unless I’ve missed it, in the previous thread about Bob, Bob did not have a previous commitment to involve himself in that one. He does have a previous commitment to involve himself in this one. So if Bob, in his slacker days, had told the Vanyar the truth – that he couldn’t be arsed to check in on ape-folk regularly, on account of their being video games to play, groupies to boff, and DOCTOR WHO to watch – you’d be okay with him letting the mangani get resettled? ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/52 "2015-11-18T20:13:12Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Why is this thread so different? No human lives are imperiled by Bob’s inaction. Presumably, intelligent life is valued as much as human life by most board members, even if the intelligence is only an IQ of 60. Plus, it’s not like people will die if Avalon is not harvested. People are definitely dying in Syria whatever choice Bob makes there. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/53 "2015-11-18T22:20:27Z")
Bob, and people in general, should do the right thing regardless of what some dumb law says. Laws are quite often wrong. And until they are changed the only thing a good person can do is break them. “Just following orders” is no excuse. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/54 "2015-11-19T02:04:14Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > First the short version: the United States government has decided to use military force to resettle a tribe of sentient non-humans so the US can exploit the vast mineral and technological wealth of their homeland (and also keep said wonders out of any other nations’s hands). the resettlement will kill the tribe within years, if not months. In his youth, Bob promised to protect the tribe from just such a fate, but the US is counting on his loyalty to _his_ homeland to restrain him. Should Bob keep his word, stay on the side of the angels, and commit treason, or let the history of the Americas repeat itself? > > You can answer the thread question just from that, I think. If you simply must have more details, check the next post. If you don’t see such a post, count to sixty. How is this even a question? I mean, you say he’s from the USA. What does “treason” even mean in a society where Congressmen sign pledges to Grover Norquist? Yeah, they’ll come after him. Great, they’re supervillains now. Should Captain America have knuckled under to Dick Nixon, or Ronald Reagan, or “Director Stark”? No! Commit treason, if that’s what they’re going to call it. Stop an extinction. What else are you going to do? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/55 "2015-11-19T02:09:00Z")
OK, I have now read the second post to this thread. These are _mangani?_ My position is only strengthened. Defend cryptohominid diversity! Do ERB proud! ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/56 "2015-11-19T02:44:59Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > …That was my thought as well; thanks for posting it. That said, I’m disappointed that you, in particular, have no commented on the name _Vanyar_. \*\*Baker \*\*caught the Burroughs reference. Hang your head in shame, Tolkien fan!.. Well, of _course_ I caught it. I just didn’t, er, want to break the mood. Yeah, that’s it… ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/57 "2015-11-19T03:35:24Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > To all you folks who want Bob to lay down the smack on his own people: > > Is no one bothered that, if Bob decides to put his judgment over the democratic process, he is basically declaring himself master of the USA? And since there seems to be an international consensus that Avalon’s resources should be exploited, and he’s threatened violence to prevent it, won’t following thru mean he’s making himself master of HUMANKIND? > > Bob doesn’t like something, so it doesn’t happen because no mortal can oppose him. Doesn’t that make him an actual god rather than godlike? Is that something you’d want? Of course not. Why would it? Bob is doing what’s right, the U.S. is doing what’s wrong. You’re acting as if democracy itself is an inherent good. No, it’s just a tool. We utilize the fact that evil and selfishness are inextricably linked by making it harder to be selfish. You’re forced to care about what other people think. An evil democracy is not better than a benevolent dictator. We’re not dealing with Bob doing what he wants. We’re dealing with Bob doing the right thing. The U.S. is committing genocide. Democracy has failed to stop this. Bob has an ethical duty to try and stop them, just like you and I would. He just can do a whole lot more about it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/58 "2015-11-19T03:41:36Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > [In this thread from many moons ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=694595)–from after the Arab Spring, but before ISIL-- we discussed whether Bob should intervene the Syrian civil war. The consensus then was that he shouldn’t get involved in such a geopolitical hairball. > > Why is this thread so different? No human lives are imperiled by Bob’s inaction. What? You specifically set these creatures up to sapient and defined them as primates. There are human lives at stake, even if they aren’t _Homo sapiens sapiens_ (not that it would matter if they were non-human and sapient). And, like it or not, genocide is worse on the cosmic scale than war. Plus, the Syria civil war is a political issue. There’s an argument that Bob can make things worse. Taking down Iraq sure made things worse. That’s not an issue here. What the U.S. wants to do is absolutely, completely evil. It’s Nazi-level evil. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/59 "2015-11-19T03:42:23Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Well, of _course_ I caught it. I just didn’t, er, want to break the mood. Yeah, that’s it… You fool no one, ceorl. I have dispatched the Galadriel-model comfortbot to read the entirety of the Silmarillion to you over the next fourteen nights so that you may become respectable again. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728/60 "2015-11-19T13:02:36Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I don’t think the US is engaging in war as usually defined. The Vanyar are all dead, and I expect the mangani, looking like chimps as they do, are legally considered animals. The island’s up for grabs. Is it? Obtaining territory by military conquest has rather fallen out of favour in recent centuries. (Ukraine not withstanding). If the US position is that Avalon is theirs simply because they’ve got a fleet and a flag on a stick I think that’s at least questionable from a legal standpoint. Similarly, I think the status of the mangani requires determination - there are humans with an IQ of 60, after all, and we don’t kidnap them at gunpoint. Overall, the position that the US forces are following a lawful order seems to be resting on very shaky ground. > [@](#): > > Assuming that’s an actual question rather than a rhetorical one, I will put my OP hat and say no. Bob is not an X-Man; he didn’t spend his childhood training in a holodeck on creative ways to use his powers. And if I were he, I’d be too chicken to practice making tornadoes; that strikes me as something that could easily get out of hand. Not a tornado necessarily. Could Bob’s heat vision create a wall of superheated steam between Avalon and the fleet? Could he fly back and forth at superspeed to create massive turbulence in the air and water on a line across the bows? He’s got a lot of powers and he’s not an idiot - he must have some option for making the approach hazardous without directly harming the fleet. > [@](#): > > What are you gonna do but get in Bob’s way? This wasn’t aimed at me, but I think one answer is “be a human shield”. “US Navy kills citizen in attempt to exploit and murder race of peaceful innocents” isn’t a good look. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ex-slacker-superhero-and-the-heroic-treason-dilemma/737728.md?page=4)