# The Expulsion of the Palestinians in 1948 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482 "2004-08-25T18:42:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DonMartin88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DonMartin88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonMartin88)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/1 "2004-08-25T18:42:02Z")
this is a very interesting page for those who are interested in historical facts about the Middle-east and teh palestinian-israely conflikts. Very informal. after reading this I thought: -why have Israel gotten away with this for so long ? -did the palestinians have the jews as their mentors when it comes to terrorism? -did Israel steal a whole country? > [@](#): > > **The Expulsion of the Palestinians, 1947-1948** > by Robin Miller > > Date: October, 2001 (revised, and title changed, 1/31/2002) > > The “Palestinian refugee problem”–that is, the human tragedy created by the Israeli expulsion of the Palestinians from their homeland, Palestine–remains a seemingly insoluble aspect of the Middle East puzzle. > > Yet the expulsion of the Palestinians was an inescapable outcome of the United Nations’ 1947 decision to partition Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab states the following year. (The Arab state never came into existence.) > > Before the partition, Jews comprised only one-third of the population of Palestine, which held some 608,000 Jews and 1,237,000 Arabs. Even within the area designated for Israel under the U.N. partition plan, the population consisted of some 500,000 Jews and 330,000 Arabs. **How could a country with such a large Arab minority become a Jewish homeland?** [1] the whole text, with sources, is here [http://robincmiller.com/pales2.htm](http://robincmiller.com/pales2.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/2 "2004-08-25T19:13:02Z")
> [@](#): > > -why have Israel gotten away with this for so long ? > -did the palestinians have the jews as their mentors when it comes to terrorism? > -did Israel steal a whole country? All three answers can be summed up in this short explanation. Palestinians, rather than using the non violent option, or even the opition of not targeting civilians decided to ignore this for maximum short term propaganda value. What it has resulted in the long term however is the decreasing chance that they will ever be allowed to have a state of their own. Besides, even if they did have a state expect it to be as divided and destructive than ever before. Israel hasn’t gotten away with anything, the fact that two major Islamic terrorist groups have decided that nothing short of destroying Israel is the only option, the only option Israel has to defend itself against this. It’ll be tit for tat for years to come. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/3 "2004-08-25T19:52:53Z")
Here’s a very interesting documentary, [The Silent Exodus](http://www.phyllis-chesler.com/video/pierre_rehov_films.htm) , that document the expulsion of Jews from the Middle East which started in 1948. It’s made by some French guy, Pierre Rehov, and free to download until Sept. 12 2004. Very good. [http://www.phyllis-chesler.com/video/pierre\_rehov\_films.htm](http://www.phyllis-chesler.com/video/pierre_rehov_films.htm) Ps. The title of this thread is somewhat misleading. I believe it was not until the late sixties that the term Palestinians started to be used – until then the residences were called and referred to themselves as Arabs. Thus I think a more appropriate title would have been “The Expulsion of the Arabs in 1948” ---
**Author:** ![Aitara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aitara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aitara)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/4 "2004-08-25T20:25:49Z")
I would recommend 2 books by Benny Morris that addres this issue. The author is a professor at Ben Gurion University, and came under considerable criticism for this. [ul] [li] **The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited** - An update to his original book. this book addresses how the refugee problem began[/li][li] **Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist-Arab Conflict, 1881-2001** - This book puts the situation into historical context while trying to remove what he feels is partisan commentary on both sides.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/5 "2004-08-25T20:36:06Z")
Why should Israelis respect a terrorist leader of the PLO who was trained by Nazis in Poland in terrorism (Arafat) Arabs have some hypocrisy in this, how about when they ruled the Gaza Strip? And imposed a Nazi like regime on the local Palestinians. I think the real problem here is not Israeli injustice, but Arab intolerance. Both peoples deserve their own state, compromise is the issue here. [http://www.middle-east-info.org/gateway/refugees/index.htm](http://www.middle-east-info.org/gateway/refugees/index.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/6 "2004-08-25T20:55:27Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Why should Israelis respect a terrorist leader of the PLO who was trained by Nazis in Poland in terrorism (Arafat) So, Arafat was training in Poland when he was 15? Sorry, wrong. Arafat grew up in Cairo his entire life and was not involved with the Nazis in any form. ---
**Author:** ![nonpolar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3da27b/32.png) [@nonpolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nonpolar)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/7 "2004-08-25T21:22:06Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Why should Israelis respect a terrorist leader of the PLO who was trained by Nazis in Poland in terrorism (Arafat) > > Arabs have some hypocrisy in this, how about when they ruled the Gaza Strip? And imposed a Nazi like regime on the local Palestinians. I think the real problem here is not Israeli injustice, but Arab intolerance. Both peoples deserve their own state, compromise is the issue here. > > [Middle-East-Info.org - Jewish Refugees and Displaced Arab Palestinian](http://www.middle-east-info.org/gateway/refugees/index.htm) What the F\*\*K you talking about man! Too much too drink?Come back when you are sober. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/8 "2004-08-25T21:38:29Z")
Ooops, not Arafat, some of his family. [http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/Yasser-Arafat-Hamas.htm](http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/Yasser-Arafat-Hamas.htm) ---
**Author:** ![bootyhunter16](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@bootyhunter16](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bootyhunter16)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/9 "2004-08-25T21:59:32Z")
Did you know that Palestinians in Lebanon are forbidden from working in over 70 professions? [http://www.shaml.org/publications/monos/mono\_refugees\_in\_lebanon.htm#The%20L](http://www.shaml.org/publications/monos/mono_refugees_in_lebanon.htm#The%20L) [http://www.un.org/unrwa/refugees/lebanon.html](http://www.un.org/unrwa/refugees/lebanon.html) did you know that Kuwait murdered more than 500 000 Palestinians after the gulf war, because of Saddam’s percieved support for Arafat? And that this is the reason Palestinians in Iraq are being forced out of their homes, they are percieved as a rich minority even though Saddam for all his crocodile tears discriminated against them as much as anyone else? > **[News](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F06%2F09%2Fwirq09.xml)** > > Latest breaking news, including politics, crime and celebrity. Find stories, updates and expert opinion. [http://www.shaml.org/ground/paliniraq/index.htm](http://www.shaml.org/ground/paliniraq/index.htm) > **[The Washington Post: Breaking News, World, US, DC News and Analysis](https://www.washingtonpost.com/?pagename=article&contentId=A15397-2003Aug2¬Found=true)** > > Breaking news and analysis on politics, business, world national news, entertainment more. In-depth DC, Virginia, Maryland news coverage including traffic, weather, crime, education, restaurant reviews and more. It is indeed true that the gaza strip was occupied by Egypt until 1967 and that the regime there was compared to a Nazi one by Saudi radio stations. Egypt isn’t the only African country to mistreat Palestinian minorities either: [http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0896/9608009.htm](http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0896/9608009.htm) ---
**Author:** ![nonpolar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3da27b/32.png) [@nonpolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nonpolar)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/10 "2004-08-25T22:00:01Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Ooops, not Arafat, some of his family. > > [http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/Yasser-Arafat-Hamas.htm](http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/Yasser-Arafat-Hamas.htm) Sharon and top officers of Israeli Occupying Army were trained in urban warfare by American Nazis. I’m closer to the truth, than you with your Polish Nazis story. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/11 "2004-08-25T22:22:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Sharon and top officers of Israeli Occupying Army were trained in urban warfare by American Nazis 😕 Cite? ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/12 "2004-08-25T22:36:39Z")
Is the term “Expulsion” even valid? I don’t believe that the forced expulsion of Arab inhabitants was part of official policy when Israel proclaimed its statehood. If memory serves me, an appeal was made to the Arabs _not_ to leave. Of course, I am not unaware of the acts of many of the early Zionists to actively expel Arabs. However, this was not officially sanctioned, as the **OP** would seem to imply. Of course, I coud be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/13 "2004-08-25T22:58:41Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Ooops, not Arafat, some of his family. > > [http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/Yasser-Arafat-Hamas.htm](http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/Yasser-Arafat-Hamas.htm) Which family member was that? Please quote the passage from the cite. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/14 "2004-08-25T23:01:27Z")
> [@quote from the OP](#): > > The Israeli myth that the Palestinians left on instructions from Arab leaders has long since been shown to be a fabrication. Did what you are quoting provide a cite for this? Its pretty contrary to what I’ve always read about before…and they are making a pretty bald statement calling it a ‘myth’. > [@quote from the OP](#): > > How could a country with such a large Arab minority become a Jewish homeland? Well, the easy answer to this is that it was done by UN fiat of course. The more indepth answer, if memory servers, was that there were supposed to be two separate nations created out of what wasn’t a nation to begin with. There WAS no Palestininan nation at any time in the past. Again, if memory serves it was a province in the old Ottoman empire and then kind of just floated around until Israel was created. The jews had been migrating into the area for decades and creating farms and holdfasts out of what was essentially a barren desert (again, this is how I remember it anyway). > [@quote from the OP](#): > > More often, though, the instruments of expulsion were the terrorizing and demoralization of the Arab population. Jewish military forces used several tactics in pursuit of these goals. Yup, true enough…but only telling one side of the story. Again, from memory much of the jewish military (well, para-military forces at that time) were formed BECAUSE of Arab terrorism and attacks on their communities…prior to that the jews were mostly just farmers in Palestine. At some point they had enough and formed militia groups to get some pay back (Benny G and his boys and girls). So, there are really two sides to that, and its kind of a chicken and egg thing…who attacked first and for what reason. But prior to the formation of Israel the Arabs gave as good as (or better than) they got from a terrorism perspective. All in all the OP’s cite seems to be pretty one sided…and overly simplistic in what was a confused and conplicated situation. I’m unsure also what exactly the debate is here. What exactly are we debating? If the Palestinians fled FROM the jews or fled TOO the approaching combined Arab armies that were poised to wipe Israel from the map? If the jews ‘stole’ the country? If the jews were as much into terrorism as the Arabs were/are? Who was more vicious? Whether the Palestinians, having fled (for whatever reason) should have been allowed back in? What? -XT ---
**Author:** ![nonpolar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3da27b/32.png) [@nonpolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nonpolar)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/15 "2004-08-25T23:12:05Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > 😕 > > Cite? Well,for one Israeli Occupation Army is very methodicall,heartless and scruples in killing and humilliating Palestinians ,that reminds me very much of methodicall cold hearted Nazis in WW2,don’t you think so? Now Israelis start to build walls around defensless Palestinian ,remember WW2 and Jewish ghettos in Warsaw ,Lodz, etc. I guess we never learn from history. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/16 "2004-08-25T23:30:39Z")
> [@DonMartin88](#): > > snip > the whole text, with sources, is here > [The Expulsion of the Palestinians, 1947-1948](http://robincmiller.com/pales2.htm) You gona bother coming back? A quotation does not a debate make. I would prefer a broader critique of the times and events before making such one-sided inflamatory cracks. If you want to trade quotes, here’s one from \*The History of the Jews [\i] by Paul Johnson. You might want to read it: > [@](#): > > The events of 1947-48 which established Israel, also created the Arab-Israeli problem, which endures to this day. It has two main aspects, refugees and fronteirs, best considered separately. According to UN figures, 656,000 Arab inhabitants of mandatory Palestine fled from Israel-held territory: 280,000 to the West Bank of the Jordan, 70,000 to Transjordan, 100,000 to Lebanon, 4,000 to Iraq, 7,500 to Syria, 7,000 to Egypt and 190,000 to the Gaza strip (the Israelis put the the total figure rather lower, 550,000-600,000). \*\* They left for four reasons: to avoid being killed in the fighting, because the administration had broken down, because they were ordered or mislead or panicked by Arab radio broadcasts, and because they were stampeded by an Irgun-Stern gang massacre at the village of Deir Yassin on 9 April 1948 Seems as if the **OP** is intentionally conflating the terrorist acts of the Stern gang and the Irgunwith the Israeli government (which didn’t exist at the time) ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/17 "2004-08-25T23:43:28Z")
> [@nonpolar](#): > > Well,for one Israeli Occupation Army is very methodicall,heartless and scruples in killing and humilliating Palestinians ,that reminds me very much of methodicall cold hearted Nazis in WW2,don’t you think so? > Now Israelis start to build walls around defensless Palestinian ,remember WW2 and Jewish ghettos in Warsaw ,Lodz, etc. > I guess we never learn from history. Nice try, **NP** , but I believe the **OP** was talking about 1948… > [@](#): > > “This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the mongolian massacres and the crusades” > > ``` > - Azzam Pasha (Secretary-general of the Arab League) May 15, 1947 > > ``` You’re right, we will never learn. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/18 "2004-08-26T00:30:44Z")
One last quote: > [@](#): > > WE HEREBY DECLARE that as from the termination of the Mandate at midnight, this night of the 14th and 15th May, 1948, and until the setting up of the duly elected bodies of the State in accordance with a Constitution, to be drawn up by a Constituent Assembly not later than the first day of October, 1948, the present National Council shall act as the provisional administration, shall constitute the Provisional Government of the State of Israel. > > THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be open to the immigration of Jews from all countries of their dispersion; will promote the development of the country for the benefit of all its inhabitants; will be based on the precepts of liberty, justice and peace taught by the Hebrew Prophets; \*\*will uphold the full social and political equality of all its citizens, without distinction of race, creed or sex; will guarantee full freedom of conscience, worship, education and culture; will safeguard the sanctity and inviolability of the shrines and Holy Places of all religions; and will dedicate itself to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations. \*\* > > THE STATE OF ISRAEL will be ready to cooperate with the organs and representatives of the United Nations in the implementation of the Resolution of the Assembly of November 29, 1947, and will take steps to bring about the Economic Union over the whole of Palestine. > > We appeal to the United Nations to assist the Jewish people in the building of its State and to admit Israel into the family of nations. > > In the midst of wanton aggression, \*\*we yet call upon the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to return to the ways of peace and play their part in the development of the State, with full and equal citizenship and due representation in its bodies and institutions - provisional or permanent. \*\* > > We offer peace and unity to all the neighboring states and their peoples, and invite them to cooperate with the independent Jewish nation for the common good of all. Bolding mine. For the full text (although the above is pretty much all of it), go [here.](http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/israel.htm) Also, because many people don’t like to read things that run counter to what they would like to believe, (preferring instead to rely on self-published web sites as authoritities) I have underlined and bolded in LARGE OPTIC-ORANGE TEXT that portion of the declaration which calls for the expulsion of Arabs. Sneaky Jews; pulling the ol’ “reverse psychology” gambit. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/19 "2004-08-26T00:42:08Z")
> [@bootyhunter16](#): > > did you know that Kuwait murdered more than 500 000 Palestinians after the gulf war, because of Saddam’s percieved support for Arafat? And that this is the reason Palestinians in Iraq are being forced out of their homes, they are percieved as a rich minority even though Saddam for all his crocodile tears discriminated against them as much as anyone else? > [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F06%2F09%2Fwirq09.xml](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F06%2F09%2Fwirq09.xml) > [http://www.shaml.org/ground/paliniraq/index.htm](http://www.shaml.org/ground/paliniraq/index.htm) > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A15397-2003Aug2¬Found=true](http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A15397-2003Aug2¬Found=true) They expelled 450,000 but they didn’t kill 500,000. And in 1948 the Israelis were willing to accept a two state solution. The Palestinians and Arabs were not. Here are some pro-Israel accounts of the refugee problem and its roots. To give an alternate view. [http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=4454](http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=4454) [http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~peters/refugees2.html](http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~peters/refugees2.html) [http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8650](http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8650) I personally don’t care much about this situation. The world is filled with refugees and one culture overtaking and annexing another. I don’t see why this issue is major but what happens to the blacks in southern Sudan or the Kurds is not. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/20 "2004-08-26T02:33:25Z")
> [@nonpolar](#): > > Now Israelis start to build walls around defensless Palestinian ,remember WW2 and Jewish ghettos in Warsaw ,Lodz, etc. Is this a whoosh??? A joke? Or perhaps defensless doesn’t mean the same thing as defensEless?? All I can say if you are serious is to tell the myriad dead civilians at various malls, cafe’s and on bus’s exactly how defenseless Palestinians are. ☹ -XT [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482.md?page=2)