# The Expulsion of the Palestinians in 1948 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482 "2004-08-25T18:42:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/21 "2004-08-26T03:17:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Well,for one Israeli Occupation Army is very methodicall,heartless and scruples in killing and humilliating Palestinians ,that reminds me very much of methodicall cold hearted Nazis in WW2,don’t you think so? NO. Israelis don’t care for Palestinians. They want to be left alone just like everybody else. If you’ve got a problem you should really take it up with Hamas and Hezbollah. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/22 "2004-08-26T03:31:27Z")
The OP ignores a few important facts. It was the Arabs not the Israelis who declared war in 1948. Most Palestinians were not evicted from Israeli-controlled territory, they left it voluntarily (in anticipation of returning after Israel was defeated in what they thought would be a short time). Granted there have been terrorist activities perpetrated by Jews and Muslims are second class citizens in Israel. But one would have to be intentionally wearing blinders to ignore the fact that the vast majority of terrorist activities have been perpetrated by Muslims and Jews are treated far worse in Muslim countries. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/23 "2004-08-26T03:37:05Z")
**Bizzwire** already pointed out Azam Pasha’s quote. I’ll address this ridiculousness that the Egyptian and Jordanian citizens of the time did not leave due to Arab influence, or as your cite put it > [@](#): > > (The Israeli myth that the Palestinians left on instructions from Arab leaders has long since been shown to be a fabrication.)[3] Let’s look at this ‘myth’ shall we? [a bunch of quotes are collected here](http://yahoodi.com/peace/refugees.html) > [@](#): > > “The Arab exodus from other villages was not caused by the actual battle, but by the exaggerated description spread by Arab leaders to incite them to fight the Jews” > > - Yunes Ahmed Assad, refugee from the town of Deir Yassin, in Al Urdun, April 9, 1953 > [@](#): > > “…our city flourished and developed for the good of both Jewish and Arab residents … Do not destroy your homes with your own hands; do not bring tragedy upon yourselves by unnecessary evacuation and self-imposed burdens. By moving out you will be overtaken by poverty and humiliation. But in this city, yours and ours, Haifa, the gates are open for work, for life, and for peace, for you and your families.” > The Haifa Workers’ Council bulletin, 28 April 1948 > [@](#): > > · “…the Jewish hagana asked (using loudspeakers) Arabs to remain at their homes but the most of the Arab population followed their leaders who asked them to leave the country.” > The TIMES of London, reporting events of 22.4.48 > [@](#): > > " The existence of these refugees is a direct result of the Arab States’ opposition to the partition plan and the reconstitution of the State of Israel. The Arab states adopted this policy unanimously, and the responsibility of its results, therefore is theirs. > …The flight of Arabs from the territory allotted by the UN for the Jewish state began immediately after the General Assembly decision at the end of November 1947. This wave of emigration, which lasted several weeks, comprised some thirty thousand people, chiefly well-to-do-families." > > - Emil Ghory, secretary of the Arab High Council, Lebanese daily Al-Telegraph, 6 Sept 1948 > [@](#): > > “Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return.” > > - Haled al Azm, the Syrian Prime Minister in 1948-49, The Memoirs of Haled al Azm, (Beirut, 1973), Part 1, pp. 386-387 > [@](#): > > One morning in April 1948, Dr. Jamal woke us to say that the Arab Higher Committee (AHC), led by the Husseinis, had warned Arab residents of Talbieh to leave immediately. The understanding was that the residents would be able to return as conquerors as soon as the Arab forces had thrown the Jews out. Dr. Jamal made the point repeatedly that he was leaving because of the AHC’s threats, not because of the Jews, and that he and his frail wife had no alternative but to go. > Commentary Magazine – January 2000 ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/24 "2004-08-26T03:48:37Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > The OP ignores a few important facts. It was the Arabs not the Israelis who declared war in 1948. Most Palestinians were not evicted from Israeli-controlled territory, they left it voluntarily (in anticipation of returning after Israel was defeated in what they thought would be a short time). No, No, \*\* No!!!\*\* Didn’t you read the **OP**? > [@](#): > > …The Israeli myth that the Palestinians left on instructions from Arab leaders has long since been shown to be a fabrication.)[3] I took **DonMartin88** ’s advice and went to the website of Robin C Miller in order to fight my own ignorance (I was one of those who actually believed that most of the Arabs left more or less voluntarily). I was most intrigue by the footnote in the above quote. Here it is: > [@](#): > > 1. For an extended analysis also finding an Israeli intent to expel the Palestinians, see Finkelstein, pp. 51-87. Finkelstein’s work is authoritative. There you have it. Finklestein (_all hail!_) said it. I believe it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/25 "2004-08-26T04:13:14Z")
Not that it looks like the OP will be coming back, but I would have liked to know what the debate was. 🙂 -XT ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/26 "2004-08-26T04:15:14Z")
> [@nonpolar](#): > > Now Israelis start to build walls around defensless Palestinian ,remember WW2 and Jewish ghettos in Warsaw ,Lodz, etc. > I guess we never learn from history. Funny… I could’ve sworn that the Israelis were building a wall around their own population. Moreoever, even this [partisan cite](http://www.pengon.org/wall/fact-may-2003.pdf) says that the wall is built along the Green Line, albeit not close to it. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/27 "2004-08-26T04:21:41Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Not that it looks like the OP will be coming back, but I would have liked to know what the debate was. 🙂 > > -XT I think it was more a rant than a debate… I think that the debate was supposed to be: > [@DonMartin88](#): > > -why have Israel gotten away with this for so long ? > -did the palestinians have the jews as their mentors when it comes to terrorism? > -did Israel steal a whole country? Though it seems more like those were merely rhetorical flourishes designed to say “Israel is bad.” rather than debate the ideas. Could be wrong, and I’d welcome the OP to correct me if so. ---
**Author:** ![bootyhunter16](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@bootyhunter16](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bootyhunter16)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/28 "2004-08-26T12:18:34Z")
yeah … I often wonder why this is made such an issue of while none of the other things you mention are (the Sudan, etc). People should look at those links I gave about the treatment of Palestinians in other countries, before jumping on Israel as the only country to treat its Palestinians badly. People who say it’s because of pure antisemitism are missing the point. If israel was a Christian country the same treatment would be given to it by the media. Part of the reason everyone focuses on Israel is because Israelis are white, and people in the west are very uncomfortable with “westerners” killing anyone else. If the Palestinians were black and the Israelis were arabs, nobody would care. Its a sort of racism that we expect better from our own people (whites) than anyone else. Nobody cares about the Sudan because we (meaning the west as a whole) don’t expect anything more of those people anyway. But that’s not the whole reason either. There are a lot of influential saudis and arabs who own businesses and our government is very keen to trade with them, with oil and other things. Look at Fahrenheit 9-11. I’m sure the Bush family isn’t the only influential family in the West with those links. We rely on them for our oil. Bin Laden owns a lot of shares in very big Western companies, and those in turn sponsor government campaigns. They’re very successful in banking and finance. Because the muslim population in the West is growing at a very rapid rate, politicians want their votes. And newspapers like the Guardian want to sell more copies. They can do this by covering “muslim issues” like Palestine. Its easy, they only care about money - which they can get from arab sponsors and advertisers - and readers, so that’s why stuff like this is reported at the expense of other things. ---
**Author:** ![Capt\_B.Phart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Capt\_B.Phart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt_B.Phart)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/29 "2004-08-26T13:05:07Z")
> [@bootyhunter16](#): > > yeah … I often wonder why this is made such an issue of while none of the other things you mention are (the Sudan, etc). People should look at those links I gave about the treatment of Palestinians in other countries, before jumping on Israel as the only country to treat its Palestinians badly. > > People who say it’s because of pure antisemitism are missing the point. If israel was a Christian country the same treatment would be given to it by the media. Part of the reason everyone focuses on Israel is because Israelis are white, and people in the west are very uncomfortable with “westerners” killing anyone else. If the Palestinians were black and the Israelis were arabs, nobody would care. Its a sort of racism that we expect better from our own people (whites) than anyone else. Nobody cares about the Sudan because we (meaning the west as a whole) don’t expect anything more of those people anyway. Not sure about the race thing, but IMO it’s the fact that Israel is seen as part of the democratic West (even if it’s in the east geographically), rather than some scabby dictatorship/kingdom, that leads people (inside and outside Israel) to call for higher standards. Also there is a feeling that Israel _can_ change whereas situations like Sudan are seen (rightly or wrongly,) as intractable. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/30 "2004-08-26T15:10:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Not that it looks like the OP will be coming back Well, lots to do, you know. Today the SDMB, tomorrow the world. ---
**Author:** ![DonMartin88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DonMartin88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonMartin88)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/31 "2004-08-26T16:25:27Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > **Bizzwire** already pointed out Azam Pasha’s quote. > > I’ll address this ridiculousness that the Egyptian and Jordanian citizens of the time did not leave due to Arab influence, or as your cite put it > > Let’s look at this ‘myth’ shall we? > > [a bunch of quotes are collected here](http://yahoodi.com/peace/refugees.html) not according to the jewish historican Benny Morris (from an interview dated 9 January 2004 ) > [@](#): > > Benny Morris, in the month ahead the new version of your book on the birth of the Palestinian refugee problem is due to be published. Who will be less pleased with the book - the Israelis or the Palestinians? > > "The revised book is a double-edged sword. It is based on many documents that were not available to me when I wrote the original book, most of them from the Israel Defense Forces Archives. What the new material shows is that there were far more Israeli acts of massacre than I had previously thought. To my surprise, there were also many cases of rape. In the months of April-May 1948, units of the Haganah [the pre-state defense force that was the precursor of the IDF] were given operational orders that stated explicitly that they were to uproot the villagers, expel them and destroy the villages themselves. > > “At the same time, it turns out that there was a series of orders issued by the Arab Higher Committee and by the Palestinian intermediate levels to remove children, women and the elderly from the villages. So that on the one hand, the book reinforces the accusation against the Zionist side, but on the other hand it also proves that many of those who left the villages did so with the encouragement of the Palestinian leadership itself.” > > According to your new findings, how many cases of Israeli rape were there in 1948? > > “About a dozen. In Acre four soldiers raped a girl and murdered her and her father. In Jaffa, soldiers of the Kiryati Brigade raped one girl and tried to rape several more. At Hunin, which is in the Galilee, two girls were raped and then murdered. There were one or two cases of rape at Tantura, south of Haifa. There was one case of rape at Qula, in the center of the country. At the village of Abu Shusha, near Kibbutz Gezer [in the Ramle area] there were four female prisoners, one of whom was raped a number of times. And there were other cases. Usually more than one soldier was involved. Usually there were one or two Palestinian girls. In a large proportion of the cases the event ended with murder. Because neither the victims nor the rapists liked to report these events, we have to assume that the dozen cases of rape that were reported, which I found, are not the whole story. They are just the tip of the iceberg.” > > According to your findings, how many acts of Israeli massacre were perpetrated in 1948? > > " Twenty-four. In some cases four or five people were executed, in others the numbers were 70, 80, 100. There was also a great deal of arbitrary killing. Two old men are spotted walking in a field - they are shot. A woman is found in an abandoned village - she is shot. There are cases such as the village of Dawayima [in the Hebron region], in which a column entered the village with all guns blazing and killed anything that moved. > > "The worst cases were Saliha (70-80 killed), Deir Yassin (100-110), Lod (250), Dawayima (hundreds) and perhaps Abu Shusha (70). There is no unequivocal proof of a large-scale massacre at Tantura, but war crimes were perpetrated there. At Jaffa there was a massacre about which nothing had been known until now. The same at Arab al Muwassi, in the north. About half of the acts of massacre were part of Operation Hiram [in the north, in October 1948]: at Safsaf, Saliha, Jish, Eilaboun, Arab al Muwasi, Deir al Asad, Majdal Krum, Sasa. In Operation Hiram there was a unusually high concentration of executions of people against a wall or next to a well in an orderly fashion. > > “That can’t be chance. It’s a pattern. Apparently, various officers who took part in the operation understood that the expulsion order they received permitted them to do these deeds in order to encourage the population to take to the roads. The fact is that no one was punished for these acts of murder. Ben-Gurion silenced the matter. He covered up for the officers who did the massacres.” [http://home.comcast.net/~jat.action/BennyMorris.htm](http://home.comcast.net/~jat.action/BennyMorris.htm) ---
**Author:** ![DonMartin88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DonMartin88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonMartin88)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/32 "2004-08-26T16:31:10Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Why should Israelis respect a terrorist leader of the PLO who was trained by Nazis in Poland in terrorism (Arafat) > > Arabs have some hypocrisy in this, how about when they ruled the Gaza Strip? And imposed a Nazi like regime on the local Palestinians. I think the real problem here is not Israeli injustice, but Arab intolerance. Both peoples deserve their own state, compromise is the issue here. > > [Middle-East-Info.org - Jewish Refugees and Displaced Arab Palestinian](http://www.middle-east-info.org/gateway/refugees/index.htm) your source are laughable at best 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DonMartin88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DonMartin88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonMartin88)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/33 "2004-08-26T16:43:14Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > All three answers can be summed up in this short explanation. Palestinians, rather than using the non violent option, or even the opition of not targeting civilians decided to ignore this for maximum short term propaganda value. What it has resulted in the long term however is the decreasing chance that they will ever be allowed to have a state of their own. Besides, even if they did have a state expect it to be as divided and destructive than ever before. > > Israel hasn’t gotten away with anything, the fact that two major Islamic terrorist groups have decided that nothing short of destroying Israel is the only option, the only option Israel has to defend itself against this. It’ll be tit for tat for years to come. I think you need som more background. The brits had som trouble in this war and feard that Russia would pull out of it because of the russian revolution in 1917. Lloyd George got information that there where many jews on the highest level in the russian communist-party and thought that a promise for a “jewish-homeland” would win their mind and harts and keep them from pulling Russia out of the war. Britain did therefore create the Balfour-decleration i 1917. However, this strategy didn’t work and the communist pulled Russia out of the war. The jewis immigration into Palestine started in the 1880s, but where very limited. This immigration accelrated in the 1900s and this started naturally to worry the palestinian-arabic population that have lived there for generations. Especially after they understood that the jews had the aspiration to create a jewish state on their land. (almost all of these immigrants came from Europa, end the arabs fealt that they hadde little to do with the Middle-east.) The immigration increased in the 1920’s 30’s and 40’s and so did the conflict. The arabs turned to violence against the jews and the brits therefore decided to put some limits to the jewish immigration. This did however lead to jewish terror against the brits and they finally decided to pull out of Palestine in 1947. the background for the war i 1948 is the massive jewish immigration and their aspiration to create a jewish homeland. This made the arabs frustrated and as they saw the increasing jewish immigration after ww1 and that nothing was done to stop this they turned to violence (who can blame them?) This is the background for the war in 1948. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/34 "2004-08-26T16:47:22Z")
I’d like to know what that 88 stands for. ---
**Author:** ![DonMartin88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DonMartin88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonMartin88)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/35 "2004-08-26T17:07:17Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I’d like to know what that 88 stands for. 1988 I’m a sucker after the 80’s (music, movies etc). 1988 was one of my best years (but that’s on a personel level) ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/36 "2004-08-26T17:09:04Z")
> [@](#): > > This made the arabs frustrated and as they saw the increasing jewish immigration after ww1 and that nothing was done to stop this they turned to violence (who can blame them?) When they start to blow up kids on buses, and attack civilians on purpose, that sympathy dries up quickly. ---
**Author:** ![DonMartin88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DonMartin88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonMartin88)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/37 "2004-08-26T17:22:12Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > When they start to blow up kids on buses, and attack civilians on purpose, that sympathy dries up quickly. this is the only means they have to fight back the israely terror-attack. They haven’t all that many choices. Israel is a very superiour militatry force inn the Middle-East (it’s all payed by the american tax-“prayers”). ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/38 "2004-08-26T17:32:58Z")
> [@](#): > > this is the only means they have to fight back the israely terror-attack. They haven’t all that many choices. Yes they have, but they squandered them. > [@](#): > > Israel is a very superiour militatry force inn the Middle-East And so it shall remain until a democratic Arabic state comes around and denounces terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![DonMartin88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DonMartin88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonMartin88)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/39 "2004-08-26T17:47:13Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Yes they have, but they squandered them. > > And so it shall remain until a democratic Arabic state comes around and denounces terrorism. your answers are immature and you can’t handle the facts. You can’t relate to my origian post ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482/40 "2004-08-26T17:51:59Z")
> [@DonMartin88](#): > > your answers are immature and you can’t handle the facts. You can’t relate to my origian post **I** can’t relate to your _spelling_, and it is _most_ original. 😉😛😃 And the basic concept that nobody is getting anywhere in the Middle East until the Palestinain terror stops is pretty basic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-expulsion-of-the-palestinians-in-1948/261482.md?page=3)