# The FAA will not be amused (Biplane buzzes people on runway) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 24, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259 "2013-01-24T21:59:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/21 "2013-01-26T05:32:11Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > The ground is the least forgiving. It never really got over what my dad and I did to it back in 1974. :eek: > > Neither did we. > > I like my aerobatics at a really high altitude. Flying in the middle of the air is the safest. Flying near the edges of the air can be dangerous. The edges can be recognized by the appearance of mountains, buildings, outer space and ground. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/22 "2013-01-26T05:42:10Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > I would think hitting anything with a wingtip would spin the plane, but apparently you can hit [cows](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCk4ywD_yyM)and [people](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP052lSxwXw)with no ill effect. > > That’s not to say you should treat the [tower](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G12EvBq_bT0)like a pylon at the Air Race! They’re far less forgiving! well it depends if the wing slides or digs in. there have been quite a few wingtips tagged at Oshkosh without cartwheeling the plane. No Ducati’s though. forgot about the cow video. excellent. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/23 "2013-01-26T05:47:45Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > Lancaster Muni. Runway One Eight. 😃 Lancaster Municipal doesn’t have edge lines like the video. Had to be Lancaster regional. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/24 "2013-01-26T05:49:34Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Flying in the middle of the air is the safest. Flying near the edges of the air can be dangerous. The edges can be recognized by the appearance of mountains, buildings, outer space and ground. and to this day nobody has every broken the low altitude record. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/25 "2013-01-26T12:42:17Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > _“Clean-up on runway three.”_ I think a change of underwear should suffice. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/26 "2013-01-27T03:13:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Lancaster Municipal doesn’t have edge lines like the video. Had to be Lancaster regional. Good eye. You is correct. [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/24/travel/texas-stunt-plane/index.html)is not… \*\*Washington (CNN) – Dramatic video of a stunt pilot buzzing a Texas runway – narrowly missing two people – has prompted the Federal Aviation Administration to investigate the incident, authorities confirmed Thursday. The video, shot January 16 at Lancaster Municipal Airport south of Dallas, depicts a plane coming in close proximity to two people in an apparently staged stunt. \*\* I looked up Muni and got a zoomed in picture of [73C](https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Lancaster+Municipal+Airport&hl=en&ll=42.781732,-90.67656&spn=0.018615,0.040298&cid=3987304206087958617&gl=US&t=h&z=15)in Wisconsin. Never zoomed out. Mea Culpa! > [@Magiver](#): > > and to this day nobody has every broken the low altitude record. Sure they have! Air Florida 90, ValuJet 592, Air France 447…😃 Too soon? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/27 "2013-01-27T06:06:29Z")
I think 447 holds the low altitude record. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/28 "2013-01-27T06:25:44Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > Good eye. You is correct. [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/24/travel/texas-stunt-plane/index.html)is not… > > \*\*Washington (CNN) – Dramatic video of a stunt pilot buzzing a Texas runway – narrowly missing two people – has prompted the Federal Aviation Administration to investigate the incident, authorities confirmed Thursday. > > The video, shot January 16 at Lancaster Municipal Airport south of Dallas, depicts a plane coming in close proximity to two people in an apparently staged stunt. > \*\* > > I looked up Muni and got a zoomed in picture of [73C](https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Lancaster+Municipal+Airport&hl=en&ll=42.781732,-90.67656&spn=0.018615,0.040298&cid=3987304206087958617&gl=US&t=h&z=15)in Wisconsin. Never zoomed out. > > Mea Culpa! > > Sure they have! Air Florida 90, ValuJet 592, Air France 447…😃 > Too soon? I thought the rule was you had to survive to claim the record. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/29 "2013-01-27T11:46:26Z")
What’s the big deal? I’ve seen videos of fighter jets flying at about that altitude. Hedgehopping was common in WW1 and WW2, with WW2 fighters coming back with grass stains from when they bounced airfields. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/30 "2013-01-27T14:55:35Z")
The big deal is the fatality rate from that sort of hijinks. Yes, _obviously_ one can get away with it on individual occasions but you’re pointing to the survivors, not the ones that wound up bits and pieces all over a field. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/31 "2013-01-27T15:50:24Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The big deal is the fatality rate from that sort of hijinks. If it were an amateur horsing around, I’d agree with you but in this case the pilot is supposed to be skilled in aerobatics. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/32 "2013-01-27T15:56:08Z")
I’m reminded of the story from a few weeks or months back about a private airplane hitting a car while landing (everybody survived, though I’m sure the car insurance company rep almost had a heart attack) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/33 "2013-01-27T16:57:27Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > I’m reminded of the story from a few weeks or months back about a private airplane hitting a car while landing (everybody survived, though I’m sure the car insurance company rep almost had a heart attack) > **[U.S. News: Latest Breaking Stories, Video, and Photos on American Politics,...](https://www.nbcnews.com/us-news?lite)** > > Get the latest news headlines and top stories from NBCNews.com. Find videos and news articles on the latest stories in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/34 "2013-01-27T17:26:51Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > If it were an amateur horsing around, I’d agree with you but in this case the pilot is supposed to be skilled in aerobatics. “Skilled in aerobatics” does not mean infallible or invulnerable. Plenty of people skilled in aerobatics, including those with ground-level waivers, still manage to kil themselves while flying. It’s a high risk activity even for the highly skilled. There _might_ be a justification for it in warfare. Airshows incorporating such maneuvers, at least in the US, require non-participants (that is, anyone not in or on the airplane) to be a minimum distance away. This case clearly violates that minimum. I don’t approve of this given the information we have here. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/35 "2013-01-27T17:39:15Z")
Life is about inches & seconds. Pipeline patrol operates with a low altitude wavier. Is it time to stop all air races & air shows? Stop anyone from doing something dangerous? The people in the stunt were not forced as far as I know. So, with 2 tripods instead of people on the runway, would people think there should be some punishment for the pilot? Doing this exact stunt at an airshow ??? Ribbon cutting with 2 people holding the poles as the pilots does a snap roll an instant before cutting the ribbon should be taken out of airshows? Some of the stuff I read was that he did indeed have a legal waiver. If it was indeed a practice session much ado about nothing. not a stunt pilot or used to working at extremely low altitudes all day, IMO, your opinions as to what is or is not safe is very open to debate. (Always wanted a place to say this.) IMO, the lady holding the camera was in much more danger driving to the airport than standing on that runway. ( pilot, driver, camera person ) Been there, done those things, 3000hrs pipeline patrol, etc. Lets check back in 6 months or so & see what the final result is. Will people care then? Will I or others be willing toi admit they were wrong? No matter the legal outcome, minds will not be changed. People are not logical about their personal fears. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/36 "2013-01-27T17:56:26Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > What’s the big deal? I’ve seen videos of fighter jets flying at about that altitude. Hedgehopping was common in WW1 and WW2, with WW2 fighters coming back with grass stains from when they bounced airfields. Well the obvious answer to that is that this wasn’t a war situation. It was a stunt. If the plane wing clears the side of the runway then the pilot came within 10 feet of the camera. Now we make an assumption the person yelling is directly behind the camera and that may not be the case. I don’t know what the FAA standards are for proximity to people but I’m pretty sure the camera was too close to the plane. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/37 "2013-01-27T18:08:15Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Life is about inches & seconds. > > Pipeline patrol operates with a low altitude wavier. yes but it’s not 3 feet. > [@GusNSpot](#): > > Is it time to stop all air races & air shows? > > Stop anyone from doing something dangerous? Pilots have rules and parameters that they must adhere to. > [@GusNSpot](#): > > The people in the stunt were not forced as far as I know. That has no bearing on the rules of safety. > [@GusNSpot](#): > > So, with 2 tripods instead of people on the runway, would people think there should be some punishment for the pilot? Yes. Striking objects with a plane is frowned upon. There are elevation restrictions that pilots must adhere to in an aerobatic maneuver as well as distances from people. You don’t see people standing on a race track playing games with cars. Cars operate on a single level and there is positive connection to the vehicle and it’s environment. Aircraft operate in 3 dimensional space and cannot be precisely controlled due to wind factors. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/38 "2013-01-28T05:50:11Z")
The wavier when I was flying had no lower limit in open areas. I had a pipe that crossed a major airport. I was requested to be as low as I could by the tower. If the grass had not been recently mowed, my left wheel would be dragging in it. In West Texas we pulled up to clear fences. Have you never seen a wing walker on top of a Stearman which goes inverted with the walkers head just feet from the ground? Never seen the drunk pilot act. How many hours do you have in pipeline patrol? In acrobatics? How many hours have you visited with your local FAA safety officer/person? You made no comment about the ribbon cutters? How do you think new routine is figured out? There is not enough FACTS as presented to get all excited. The FAA may hang the guy, who knows. You are entitled to your OPINIONS just as I am, but IMO, you do not know much about what you are giving ABSOLUTE opinions about. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/39 "2013-01-28T06:57:29Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Have you never seen a wing walker on top of a Stearman which goes inverted with the walkers head just feet from the ground? no, I’ve never seen this. Would love a video if you have one. > [@GusNSpot](#): > > [http://www.technewsdaily.com/15697-navy-drone-boards-carrier.html](http://www.technewsdaily.com/15697-navy-drone-boards-carrier.html) Never seen the drunk pilot act. the plane I’ve seen do this was modified with wing tip skids and flown away from people and flown at very low speed. > [@GusNSpot](#): > > You made no comment about the ribbon cutters? I’ve never seen a ribbon cutter come close to the people holding up the ribbon. All the ones I’ve seen are the result of a knife edge along the center-line. The maneuver is stabilized before the first ribbon is cut. > [@GusNSpot](#): > > How do you think new routine is figured out? ahead of time with approval and not “stand there I’m gonna try something”. Not to say this wasn’t done and he got too close. > [@GusNSpot](#): > > There is not enough FACTS as presented to get all excited. The FAA may hang the guy, who knows. that’s true. I based my opinion on the altitude and proximity to the people on the ground. This was not a stabilized maneuver. Looking at it again it appears the camera was handheld so the camera view is indeed where the person is standing. the only good thing I can say about it is the cockpit was in full view of the camera. > [@GusNSpot](#): > > You are entitled to your OPINIONS just as I am, but IMO, you do not know much about what you are giving ABSOLUTE opinions about. I have never seen an aerobatic act that involved a plane flying so close to someone. this is made worse by the fact that it’s not a stabilized maneuver. And my opinion is no more ABSOLUTE that yours. But it’s nice to know you think I’m entitled to them.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259/40 "2013-01-28T17:05:47Z")
You win. I’m out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faa-will-not-be-amused-biplane-buzzes-people-on-runway/648259.md?page=3)