# The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers and the "unitary executive"/Gitmo/"black prisons" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453 "2006-02-07T20:52:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/1 "2006-02-07T20:52:11Z")
In Gilbert Shelton’s classic underground comix series _The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers_ ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freak\_brothers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freak_brothers)), there was a story, “Mexican Odyssey,” where Our Antiheroes go to Mexico to try to score some cheap pot at the source. They stumble across a huge marijuana farm that, it turns out, is being run by a U.S. government agency to fund illegal operations. They are caught by the guards and the bureaucrat in charge has them arrested. Phineas protests, “You can’t hold us here without a trial! It says so in the Bill of Rights!” The official replies, “Oh, that old thing is only binding in the United States! Outside the U.S., we can do whatever we want!” He orders them shot. (I won’t spoil the story any further.) This satirical strawman of government arrogance now appears to have become the Bush Admin’s official position regarding its operations outside U.S. borders, e.g., the Guantanamo Bay prison, which was chosen because it is under U.S. control but not, for all legal purposes, U.S. soil. Is there any valid constitutional or legal case to be made for this? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/2 "2006-02-07T22:02:35Z")
I believe it was Fat Freddy who enunciated the basic constitutional doctrine: “freedom will get you through times of no guns better than guns will get you through times of no freedom”, or something like that… ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/3 "2006-02-07T22:17:08Z")
I don’t recall that one but I do recall Franklin’s “Drugs will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no drugs.” ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/4 "2006-02-07T22:21:54Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t recall that one but I do recall Franklin’s “Drugs will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no drugs.” Fat Freddy was always the true constitutional scholar of the bunch… ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/5 "2006-02-07T22:30:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > They stumble across a huge marijuana farm that, it turns out, is being run by a U.S. government agency to fund illegal operations. Additionally one might suggest that the marijuana farm (used as a means of feeding a national need and benefiting the Government at the same time) is similar to Guantanamo and other illiberal responses to 9/11 (feeding into a common but low level of national paranoia and keeping that ‘war’ reaction going as long as possible.) :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/6 "2006-02-07T22:40:30Z")
Reading the Wikipedia article I find that it explains how the neo-cons designed W using the Brothers as a source for one person: \*\*They are lazy and unreliable. \*\* **taking large quantities of drugs and consistently defying authority.** ``` * Freewheelin' Franklin, although terminally laid-back, is by far the most street-smart of the trio. He has no known last name, and apparently has always been on the streets. In one story, he reveals that he grew up in an orphanage and never knew his parents. Tall and skinny, he has a big bulbous nose, a waterfall moustache, and a ponytail, and **wears cowboy boots and a cowboy hat**. * Phineas T. Freakears is the intellectual and idealist of the group; he can and has created new drugs, takes an avid interest in politics, and is the most committed of them to social change. **He hails from Texas** , and while his mother is relaxed and openminded, his father is a card-carrying member of the John Birch Society. He is the hairiest, **tall and skinny with a thick bush of black hair** , a beard and glasses. * Fat Freddy Freekowtski is the **least intelligent, and can be seen as an embodiment of pure appetite**. He regularly gets "burned" on drug transactions. He comes from a large, quite ordinary family in Cleveland. He is fat, or at least plump (hence his name) with curly yellow hair. ``` \*\* “Smoking grass and drinking beer is like pissing into the wind.” “While you’re out there smashing the state, don’t forget to keep a smile on your lips and a song in your heart!”\*\* ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/7 "2006-02-07T22:49:55Z")
- W using the Brothers as a source for one person\* There is a school of thought (to which I subscribe) that the real problem with W is that he consumes insufficient quantities of drugs. If an intervention could be organized, where he could be helped to understand that his abstinent obsession has caused him to lose his soul, it is possible that the entire world could be saved…Think how delighted he would be to discover that while he was away, thc levels have increased exponentially… ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/8 "2006-02-07T22:59:42Z")
> [@atg](#): > > There is a school of thought (to which I subscribe) that the real problem with W is that he consumes insufficient quantities of drugs. On the other hand, some hold that he’s actually an [undercover left-wing hippie freak](http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=19635), and we all know that they don’t tend to have drug-deficiency problems. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/9 "2006-02-07T23:08:11Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > On the other hand, some hold that he’s actually an [undercover left-wing hippie freak](http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=19635), and we all know that they don’t tend to have drug-deficiency problems. what is really needed here, to clarify the ground, so to speak, is someone on the inside of the janitorial service at the white house, the guy who sweeps up in the white house barber shop, to be precise… ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/10 "2006-02-08T02:28:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > In Gilbert Shelton’s classic underground comix series _The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers_ ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freak\_brothers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freak_brothers)), there was a story, “Mexican Odyssey,” where Our Antiheroes go to Mexico to try to score some cheap pot at the source. They stumble across a huge marijuana farm that, it turns out, is being run by a U.S. government agency to fund illegal operations. They are caught by the guards and the bureaucrat in charge has them arrested. Phineas protests, “You can’t hold us here without a trial! It says so in the Bill of Rights!” The official replies, “Oh, that old thing is only binding in the United States! Outside the U.S., we can do whatever we want!” He orders them shot. (I won’t spoil the story any further.) > > This satirical strawman of government arrogance now appears to have become the Bush Admin’s official position regarding its operations outside U.S. borders, e.g., the Guantanamo Bay prison, which was chosen because it is under U.S. control but not, for all legal purposes, U.S. soil. > > Is there any valid constitutional or legal case to be made for this? Where’s DonLongjuan when you need him? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/11 "2006-02-08T02:43:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > IThis satirical strawman of government arrogance now appears to have become the Bush Admin’s official position regarding its operations outside U.S. borders, e.g., the Guantanamo Bay prison, which was chosen because it is under U.S. control but not, for all legal purposes, U.S. soil. > > Is there any valid constitutional or legal case to be made for this? OK, I’ll bite. The answer is “yes”. Firstly, lets look at one key differnence: Exactly how many US citizens are being held in Gitmo again? Zero, you say? I thought so… As for killing, the Congress has indeed authorized the prez to kill people outside the US when it passed the [AUMF in October 2001:](http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/sjres23.enr.html) > [@](#): > > IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons. Emphasis added. Your analogy has two flaws: It assumes that constitutional protections afforded to US citizens apply to non-US citizens not on US soil. They don’t. The second flaw is that Congress has not authorized the government to use “all necessary and appropriate force” against drug dealers, whereas it has done so for al Qaeda and its allies. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/12 "2006-02-08T02:48:52Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > “While you’re out there smashing the state, don’t forget to keep a smile on your lips and a song in your heart!”\*\* Actually, I’m fairly certain the Wikipedia article is mistaken on that point. The quote comes not from Shelton’s _Freak Brothers_ but from Skip Williamson’s \* Class War Comix.\* ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/13 "2006-02-08T02:52:44Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Your analogy has two flaws: It assumes that constitutional protections afforded to US citizens apply to non-US citizens not on US soil. They don’t. Why not – if U.S. government action is involved? > [@John Mace](#): > > The second flaw is that Congress has not authorized the government to use “all necessary and appropriate force” against drug dealers I beg your pardon. The only “drug dealers” in the referenced story were U.S. government agents. The Freak Brothers (who are drug **consumers** but never deal) just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. > [@John Mace](#): > > . . . whereas it has done so for al Qaeda and its allies. But Congress has not the authority to do so, to the extent such action violates the Bill of Rights. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/14 "2006-02-08T03:56:00Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > OK, I’ll bite. The answer is “yes”. Firstly, lets look at one > > Your analogy has two flaws: It assumes that constitutional protections afforded to US citizens apply to non-US citizens not on US soil. They don’t. The second flaw is that Congress has not authorized the government to use “all necessary and appropriate force” against drug dealers, whereas it has done so for al Qaeda and its allies. as it happens, the protections in the constitution say nothihg about “citizens”; The protected class is “persons” you are misinformed. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/15 "2006-02-08T04:02:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Actually, I’m fairly certain the Wikipedia article is mistaken on that point. The quote comes not from Shelton’s _Freak Brothers_ but from Skip Williamson’s \* Class War Comix.\* slight hijack-anyone remember Trashman? Spain Rodriguez lives near me and I’m determined to score a cell. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/16 "2006-02-08T05:07:23Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > as it happens, the protections in the constitution say nothihg about > “citizens”; The protected class is “persons” > > you are misinformed. You know this kind of shit really makes me despair for the use of legal documents. I have never really understood why the on US territory vs external us bases made any difference. The wire tapping without warrents seems pretty bogus. The right to bear arms seems to be pretty much an afterthought to a huge segment of society. And the bigest of all the 10th ammendment. It is like I am looking at a different document. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/17 "2006-02-08T05:36:49Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why not – if U.S. government action is involved? Are you saying that the CIA has to get a warrant to tap a phone line in North Korea? Are you saying that the army has to read the Miranda rights to a Qaeda operatives captured in Afghanistan? No in both case. > [@](#): > > I beg your pardon. The only “drug dealers” in the referenced story were U.S. government agents. The Freak Brothers (who are drug **consumers** but never deal) just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. My mistake, but that doesn’t change the argument. You’re talking about a US citizen. There are no US citizens in Gitom. > [@](#): > > But Congress has not the authority to do so, to the extent such action violates the Bill of Rights. But Congress hasn’t. So you’ve lost me. In one istance Congress has said “use whatever force is necessary” and in the other instance it hasn’t. If one day is issues an AUMF for the war on drugs, then your analogy would make sense. Until then, it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fabulous-furry-freak-brothers-and-the-unitary-executive-gitmo-black-prisons/343453/18 "2006-02-08T13:45:07Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > slight hijack-anyone remember Trashman? Spain Rodriguez lives near me and I’m determined to score a cell. I saw the movie based off of that a few years ago, along with some of the original comix. Not too bad.