# The faggot and the gayette: what are the odds? (Etymology...) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 31, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faggot-and-the-gayette-what-are-the-odds-etymology/672784 "2013-10-31T21:21:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faggot-and-the-gayette-what-are-the-odds-etymology/672784/1 "2013-10-31T21:21:22Z")
A faggot, as we know, is an insulting term for a male homosexual. A “gayette,” perhaps has been used with a gay woman; if not, it sounds cute in context. Ditto in the case of culinary context. They both are almost identical foods, from England and France, respectively. I think that’s an amazing coincidence. They are small hamburger-sized servings of ground-up pork meat, mostly offal (particularly the Brit one, I believe) some chopped strong green (eg chard), wrapped in caul fat and baked. Etymology help, anyone? Italian “liver,” _fegato_. But aside from that I got nothin’. ETA: Faggots are also called–only in Yorkshire?–“savory ducks,” or so I read. Could also force that in gay cultural context, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faggot-and-the-gayette-what-are-the-odds-etymology/672784/2 "2013-10-31T21:52:50Z")
Faggot means ‘bundle’. A faggot (the meatball kind) is a bundle of meat and seasonings. I can’t find a citation to support this etymology, but it seems reasonable ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faggot-and-the-gayette-what-are-the-odds-etymology/672784/3 "2013-11-01T00:47:31Z")
Ahem! There’s a[rather nice article](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2112/how-did-faggot-get-to-mean-male-homosexual) on the etymology of the word _faggot._ But, to address your specific points, the word “faggot” to mean the English [del]disgusting dish[/del] ground-up pork meat, mostly offal (particularly the Brit one, I believe) some chopped strong green (eg chard), wrapped in caul fat and baked appears in print in 1851. The meaning of “faggot” to represent a homosexual male is strictly U.S. in orgin, appearing in print in 1914. As to when “gayette” first appears, I don’t have a clue, You don’t even cite where it HAS been used. No connections to “faggot” to mean a gay person. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faggot-and-the-gayette-what-are-the-odds-etymology/672784/4 "2013-11-01T01:02:32Z")
According to the OED, not only did “faggot” originally mean a bundle of things tied together, but as a derogatory term it originally referred to a woman. The OED has cites for this sense from the late sixteenth century, whereas the sense referring to a male homosexual does not occur before the twentieth century. It’s not hard to see how a term of abuse for women gets transferred to male homosexuals; it’s an imputation of effeminacy. Less obvious is how a term meaning “bundle” becomes an epithet for a woman. This is entirely speculative, but two possiblities occur to me: First, a bundle of thing tied together is generally fairly untidy, and “faggot” might have been applied to a woman to suggest that she was untidy, disorganised, confused, etc. Secondly, “faggot” most commonly referred to a bundle of sticks tied together and used as fuel, very often in the context of burning at the stake. In fact another sense of “faggot”, dating from the mid-sixteenth century, is “punishment for heresy”. So calling a woman a faggot might suggest that she was punitive; a nag, a scold. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faggot-and-the-gayette-what-are-the-odds-etymology/672784/5 "2013-11-01T10:07:28Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > A faggot, as we know, is an insulting term for a male homosexual. No, no no. The insulting term for a male homosexual is [Bouquet garni](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouquet_garni) Curse those homophobic bigots, stealing a perfectly good english cooking term like “faggot” for their perverted insults… ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-faggot-and-the-gayette-what-are-the-odds-etymology/672784/6 "2013-11-01T22:08:26Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > As to when “gayette” first appears, I don’t have a clue, You don’t even cite where it HAS been used. An image search for the term does return results supporting the notion that it’s a very similar thing to English faggots.