# The Falklands War started 33 years ago today
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [April 2, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618 "2015-04-02T13:55:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/1 "2015-04-02T13:55:47Z")
And we haven’t forgotten. A big BZ to all the troops who fought.
---
### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/2 "2015-04-02T14:39:23Z")
On which side?
My wife has ties to Argentina and not only takes their side, but refuses to call the islands the Falklands. She prefers Malvinas. She thinks Argentina was correct in trying to take them back. I side with the British. We try to avoid the subject…
---
### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/3 "2015-04-02T14:53:17Z")
An odd affair, that war. The Argentinians were calling the islands “The Malvinas” long before the war, and claiming it for a long time. The islands are pretty much tied to Argentina for all practical purposes – it’s the closest land, and supply ships run to and from there. The Falklands aren’t really of any strategic or economic importance to the UK. Many people have suggested that a transfer probably could’ve been made peaceably (although I understand that a lot of the residents considered themselves UK subjects, and wouldn’t have been happy about that).
But when the Argentinians appropriated the islands, the British felt they had to respond forcefully, lest they lose face and invite aggression elsewhere. They still held Hong Kong, for instance.
The resulting conflict took 2 ships and just under 1000 lives in 74 days of combat. People learned what an “Exocet” was. Wikipedia lists some outcomes:
> [@](#):
>
> This brief war brought many consequences for all the parties involved, besides the considerable casualty rate and large materiel loss, especially of shipping and aircraft, relative to the deployed military strengths of the opposing sides.
>
> In the United Kingdom, Margaret Thatcher’s popularity increased. The success of the Falklands campaign was widely regarded as the factor in the turnaround in fortunes for the Conservative government, who had been trailing behind the SDP-Liberal Alliance in the opinion polls for months before the conflict began, but after the success in the Falklands the Conservatives returned to the top of the opinion polls by a wide margin and went on to win the following year’s general election by a landslide.[114] Subsequently, Defence Secretary Nott’s proposed cuts to the Royal Navy were abandoned.
>
> The islanders subsequently had full British citizenship restored in 1983, their lifestyle improved by investments Britain made after the war and by the liberalisation of economic measures that had been stalled through fear of angering Argentina. In 1985, a new constitution was enacted promoting self-government, which has continued to devolve power to the islanders.
>
> In Argentina, the Falklands War meant that a possible war with Chile was avoided. Further, Argentina returned to a democratic government in the 1983 general election, the first free general election since 1973. It also had a major social impact, destroying the military’s image as the “moral reserve of the nation” that they had maintained through most of the 20th century.
>
> Various figures have been produced for the number of veterans who have committed suicide since the war. Some studies have estimated that 264 British veterans and 350–500 Argentine veterans have committed suicide since 1982.[115][116][117] However, a detailed study[118] of 21,432 British veterans of the war commissioned by the UK Ministry of Defence found that only 95 had died from “intentional self-harm and events of undetermined intent (suicides and open verdict deaths)”, a ratio no higher than that of the general population.[119]
---
### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/4 "2015-04-02T15:03:36Z")
O, BTW what’s a BZ? KTHX
---
### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/5 "2015-04-02T15:47:37Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> O, BTW what’s a BZ? KTHX
“[Bravo Zulu](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bravo_Zulu)”, “Well Done” in modern NATO ACP-175 shorthand code (and, correspondingly, flag/voice/text/wireless communication).
---
### Author:  [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/6 "2015-04-02T15:51:04Z")
This is the[craziest thing I have ever watched](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWUWjKf3HXI). (re The Falklands War)
---
### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/7 "2015-04-02T15:58:54Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> On which side?
>
> My wife has ties to Argentina and not only takes their side, but refuses to call the islands the Falklands. She prefers Malvinas. She thinks Argentina was correct in trying to take them back. I side with the British. We try to avoid the subject…
To be clear, today is the anniversary of the [initial Argentine invasion and seizure](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_invasion_of_the_Falkland_Islands). Obviously, the UK response took a while, having to get their forces all the way across to the South Atlantic.
---
### Author:  [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/8 "2015-04-02T16:20:48Z")
Why did the conflict avert the Argentine-Chile war? Because the Argies needed _somebody_ to have a fight with?
---
### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/9 "2015-04-02T16:24:34Z")
Thanks for both clarifications, gnoitall. 🙂
I’m still not sure who we are supposed to be wishing well to from the OP, the Argentinians, or the Brits. One could make a case that “And we haven’t forgotten” can be taken as both a positive well-wishing thought and also as a snide sarcastic putdown, and applied as either to both sides.
---
### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/10 "2015-04-02T16:25:33Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#):
>
> Why did the conflict avert the Argentine-Chile war? Because the Argies needed _somebody_ to have a fight with?
[This Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beagle_conflict) indicates that Argentina was in a border conflict with Chile, with Chile holding the status quo (in other words, Argentina claimed territory held by Chile).
From a neutral perspective, Argentina would have been the aggressor.
The Argentinians decided to fight the Falklands conflict instead.
---
### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/11 "2015-04-02T16:30:57Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> Thanks for both clarifications, gnoitall. 🙂
>
> I’m still not sure who we are supposed to be wishing well to from the OP, the Argentinians, or the Brits. One could make a case that “And we haven’t forgotten” can be taken as both a positive well-wishing thought and also as a snide sarcastic putdown, and applied as either to both sides.
Although a lot of people don’t believe it, it’s possible to respect the valor and sacrifice of all participants regardless of which side (if either) you prefer (or condemn).
I prefer to think the OP was in that spirit.
---
### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/12 "2015-04-02T16:42:18Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> Although a lot of people don’t believe it, it’s possible to respect the valor and sacrifice of all participants regardless of which side (if either) you prefer (or condemn).
>
> I prefer to think the OP was in that spirit.
Oh, I can believe it.
The OP just seems to be ambiguous. Generally, people don’t give “BZ” to both sides in a war.
End of accidental hijack. 🙂
---
### Author:  [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/13 "2015-04-02T17:18:25Z")
I’ve made my position known several times before about what led to this war.
I am still glad that we won it, but it need not have been fought at all, we had plenty of opportunities to prevent it, and had actually responded on three previous occasions when Argentina began organising to invade.
As far as the Malvinas thing, its always been a crock because their ‘claim’ dates to a period before Argentina actually existed, and was never part of Argentine territory. Its almost like Scotland claiming part of Ireland because England once ruled over both.
If we were to try roll back the clock to a claim held by our national predecessors with whom we had no connection, then we would probably be redrawing maps to ensure that Alexander the Great ruled a large chunk of Europe and the Middle East - and give it some name such as Greater Macedonia
Its absurd, look at the situation in the Middle East where claims go back to a time that is convenient to the claimant - and don’t forget that historical grievances are real enough to lead to world wars.
---
### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/14 "2015-04-02T17:44:16Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#):
>
> The resulting conflict took 2 ships
Rather more than that. On the British side the destroyers Sheffield and Coventry, the frigates Ardent and Antelope, the landing ship Sir Galahad and the container ship Atlantic Conveyor were all lost. In addition several other vessels suffered major damage but weren’t complete write-offs.
On the Argentine side the cruiser General Belgrano and cargo ships Río Carcarañá and Isla de los Estados. With a few others badly damaged or captured.
As a naval/air engagement, the Falklands War was surprisingly intense.
---
### Author:  [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/15 "2015-04-02T18:21:16Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#):
>
> On the Argentine side the cruiser General Belgrano and cargo ships Río Carcarañá and Isla de los Estados. With a few others badly damaged or captured.
>
> As a naval/air engagement, the Falklands War was surprisingly intense.
The submarine AFA Santa Fe was also lost. But yes, it was a short and brutal war, not just in the air and sea; some of the land engagements were very back to basics.
---
### Author:  [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/16 "2015-04-02T18:33:42Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#):
>
> This is the[craziest thing I have ever watched](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWUWjKf3HXI). (re The Falklands War)
Here’s a diagram of the refuelling sequence required to safely get one Vulcan bomber to the Falklands from Ascension (and back). [File:Refuelling.plan.black.buck.svg - Wikimedia Commons](http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Refuelling.plan.black.buck.svg)
---
### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/17 "2015-04-02T20:10:26Z")
I’ve always felt this was a rather absurd war. It would be almost as if Argentina owned the Shetland Islands and sent warships all the way up the Atlantic to take them back from a UK seizure of the Shetlands.
Yes, I know, if someone attacked Guam, for instance, the USA would defend, but from a looking-at-the-map perspective, Argentina’s claim appears reasonable.
---
### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/18 "2015-04-02T20:16:20Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#):
>
> Rather more than that. On the British side the destroyers Sheffield and Coventry, the frigates Ardent and Antelope, the landing ship Sir Galahad and the container ship Atlantic Conveyor were all lost. In addition several other vessels suffered major damage but weren’t complete write-offs.
>
> On the Argentine side the cruiser General Belgrano and cargo ships Río Carcarañá and Isla de los Estados. With a few others badly damaged or captured.
>
> As a naval/air engagement, the Falklands War was surprisingly intense.
Short though it might have been, the Falklands War was an incredibly important war in terms of our understanding of modern naval warfare. The vulnerability of the Royal Navy to aerial attack was very surprising; aside from the fact that Argentina’s air force and naval aviation fought with a ferocity and skill even the Argentine command didb’t fully expect, the danger presented by aircraft was technically even higher than the British had feared. Argentina’s Super Etendards proved able to release their Exocets and escape before Royal Navy forces could engage. Furthermore, the absolute dominance of HMS Conqueror over the Argentine navy (Conquerer sank General Belgrano) was very telling in terms of the impact nuclear submarines have. Argentina’s ships had basically no defence at all against Conqueror.
The turning point of the war might simply have been that Argentina chose to invade before they had a full complement of Exocet missiles. They had just six (or eight; I am having some trouble figuring out who had what) to fight the war with, and with them destroyed two ships and badly damaged a third. (Antelope and Ardent were destroyed by conventional bombing attacks.) Had the Argentines had, say, 30 or 40 missiles, they would have likely won the war. There’s just no way the Royal Navy could have maintained its position.
---
### Author:  [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/19 "2015-04-02T20:19:11Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> Yes, I know, if someone attacked Guam, for instance, the USA would defend, but from a looking-at-the-map perspective, Argentina’s claim appears reasonable.
So countries can just claim bits of land that they have never been in possession of just because they look a bit close on a map? Good luck with that!
---
### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618/20 "2015-04-02T20:22:02Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#):
>
> So countries can just claim bits of land that they have never been in possession of just because they look a bit close on a map? Good luck with that!
It’s a case of “justified-but-absurd.” Or “absurd-but-justified.”
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falklands-war-started-33-years-ago-today/716618.md?page=2)