# The Fallen Blogger and the Spectre of Secularism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827 "2015-02-28T03:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/261 "2015-04-15T13:21:23Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Now, you might point out that code words like “non-privileged” aren’t the same things as accusations of racism, or, indeed, that even the most baseless and invective-filled slander of Muslims cannot be racist because Muslims are not a race. But, Garry Trudeau, the audience for this column, and the left worldwide do not believe those things. The meaning of the remarks is clear – those racists got what they deserved and no one should ever satirize anything related to Islam. You don’t want me to disagree with anything Trudeau actually said, but with some weird interpretation of what you _believe_ he “really meant”. ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/262 "2015-04-15T14:23:33Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I’m sorry, should I call a spade an agrarian tool only statistically likely to be used to move soil and manure in order to be “balanced” ? When something is crap, it’s crap… > > Not that Charlie _as a whole_ was crap, even if it had lost much of what made it great in the past. Just its weird fringe obsession with Islam (and Islam bashing) in the Charb years. No, that’s fine but it deserves a grain of salt IMO. (And I object to using your passport to back up your opinion.) I don’t think Charlie Hebdo takes itself as seriously as you seem to be suggesting. I have only seen the cartoons (and the media stories and Wikipedia…) but it’s just a satirical, provocative, at times mediocre paper in my mind. One of the few brave enough to treat radical Islam in public with the same contempt as they did everything else. Nothing I have ever seen by Charb, not much admitedly, suggests bigotry. I’m quite moved by his words that he would not be silenced by threats of violence. > [@](#): > > That’s the thing. They really weren’t. I strongly disagree. When one of the fuckheads shouts “we have avenged the prophet” and something something ISIL and the caliphate it’s clear blasphemy is what he is referencing. I don’t accept that Charlie Hebdo and Islamic fundamentalists are two sides of the same coin and the attack was a disproportionate reaction to free speech abuse. Fuck Garry Trudeau by the way. Whatever point he is trying to make about crossing a line is completely lost in the face of massacre. Unless that point is fundamentalist Islamic bigots are dangerous shitbags. > [@](#): > > I mean, what would \*you \*have done ? Wrapped his body in a dead pig and set the lot on fire, like the British used to do with Muslim rebels in India once upon a time ? What \*for \*? Would it have made him extra-dead ? No, just dispense with the chickenshit political theater. Extra-judicial executions are fine but we cannot abide by dumping unblessed bodybags in the Ocean. :rolleyes: I don’t recall the details but the mere mention by a US spokesperson to religious ceremony is obnoxious to me. > [@](#): > > That on the other hand is a less debatable assertion. And it’s a \*very \*scary thing to me because, well, the US post 9/11. > Made all the scarier that the French state is, by design, a very powerful force ; much more so than the Feds are in the US. Which is a good thing when the government has good ideas, but not so much when the government is up its own ass. I like this response. I don’t think Paris is at risk of being bombed by the french military (and I’m not disagreeing with the Afghan campaign, although it was mismanaged), but I have no doubt the French equivalent of the NSA is cackling maniacally while rolling in dough right now. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/263 "2015-04-15T20:04:44Z")
In today’s news, Muslim Student Associations across America really, really want to ban the showing of movies they don’t like: > **[Protesters detained after disrupting 'American Sniper' showing at EMU](https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2015/04/protestors_detained_after_disr.html)** > > The University of Michigan isn't the only area university whose showing of the film "American Sniper" on Friday caused controversy. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/264 "2015-04-15T20:25:58Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > In today’s news, Muslim Student Associations across America really, really want to ban the showing of movies they don’t like: > > [Protesters detained after disrupting 'American Sniper' showing at EMU - mlive.com](http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/04/protestors_detained_after_disr.html) Jesus, they sound just like Christians. Amen ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/265 "2015-04-15T20:27:09Z")
I’ll be clear – American Sniper _is_ a stupid, racist film. In this country, though, we counter stupid racism by explaining why it is stupid and racist. This organized action to ban showings at public universities is unacceptable and indicative of a tendency among Muslim political activists to just not care about American values and laws. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/266 "2015-04-15T21:39:58Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > I’ll be clear – American Sniper _is_ a stupid, racist film. In this country, though, we counter stupid racism by explaining why it is stupid and racist. This organized action to ban showings at public universities is unacceptable and indicative of a tendency among Muslim political activists to just not care about American values and laws. I seem to recall that the film Dogma was likewise protested against. Monty Python and the Holy Grail, too, not only protested against but actually banned in some nations and some individual towns. Indicative of tendencies among Christian political activists? ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/267 "2015-04-15T21:43:20Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I seem to recall that the film Dogma was likewise protested against. Monty Python and the Holy Grail, too, not only protested against but actually banned in some nations and some individual towns. > > Indicative of tendencies among Christian political activists? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/268 "2015-04-15T21:52:10Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Yes. It seems to generalise, in all honesty. Those who protest and call for bans necessarily are the ones who get air time. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/269 "2015-04-15T22:30:42Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > In today’s news, Muslim Student Associations across America really, really want to ban the showing of movies they don’t like: > > [Protesters detained after disrupting 'American Sniper' showing at EMU - mlive.com](http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/04/protestors_detained_after_disr.html) Yes, protesting movies is absolutely unique to muslims. Thanks for the heads up. BTW, where in the article does it mention that the protest was a Muslim student association, or even that any of the protesters, as individuals, were muslims? Nothing in the linked article mentions any of that. Lastly, how do you extrapolate one incident on a single college campus to a wave of movie-bannings by “Muslim Student Associations across America”? Any help you could provide as to what the fuck you are going on about would be greatly appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/270 "2015-04-15T22:39:54Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > YLastly, how do you extrapolate one incident on a single college campus to a wave of movie-bannings by “Muslim Student Associations across America”? It’s actually been three incidents, at Michigan, RPI, and UCSD. Just about this one film. The larger phenomenon of speech being banned because it offense Muslim feels has been ongoing. Keep apologizing for it – I’m sure you’ll do just fine when all the media you consume has to pass the Sharia compliance test. > [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > It seems to generalise, in all honesty. Those who protest and call for bans necessarily are the ones who get air time. Progressives understand that it’s wrong to capitulate to Christian babies demanding that no one be allowed to hear anything they don’t like, but suddenly lose their balls when it’s Muslims making the same threats. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/271 "2015-04-15T22:52:28Z")
Because he is a mentally ill bigot who thinks he is reading between the lines of statements not made at all. But he can come to the[Mégarama](http://www.megarama.ma/casablanca/mobile/?p=film-photos&fid=52592)to see it… ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/272 "2015-04-15T22:53:33Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Progressives understand that it’s wrong to capitulate to Christian babies demanding that no one be allowed to hear anything they don’t like, but suddenly lose their balls when it’s Muslims making the same threats. On what basis? Do people cave more to protesting Muslims? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/273 "2015-04-15T23:12:57Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > It’s actually been three incidents, at Michigan, RPI, and UCSD. Just about this one film. The larger phenomenon of speech being banned because it offense Muslim feels has been ongoing. Do you think, then, you could possibly be troubled to, you know, post links that actually support your premise, rather just whatever the first thing is that you happen to stumble across? You say it’s happened elsewhere? OK, then, links or you’re a fucking liar. > [@](#): > > Keep apologizing for it – I’m sure you’ll do just fine when all the media you consume has to pass the Sharia compliance test. 1. I haven’t apologized for anything, troll. People here can actually read other peoples’ previous posts, you know. 2) there’s no such thing as a ‘Sharia compliance test’ for public media in the USA, whatever that is, and it’s highly unlikely there ever will be; 3) You haven’t the slightest fucking idea what ‘sharia’ means, do you? And frankly that’s already far more feeding than you deserve. I never put people on ignore, but I promise you’ll be thoroughly ignored from now on. Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/274 "2015-04-15T23:17:42Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > On what basis? Do people cave more to protesting Muslims? I think the above post answers your question nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/275 "2015-04-15T23:26:19Z")
It is good to know the answer is no. Like in the other pit thread touching on your politics, you hallucinate discourses not actually said or written… this is a sign of the mental illness. Kabong: if you read the student newspaper linked it seems some four students who seem to be arab american but not all muslim by name and not apparently of any organisation made some boring speeches in the way the activist students always seem to do around the world… and that is all. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/276 "2015-04-15T23:28:25Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Like in the other pit thread touching on your politics, you hallucinate discourses not actually said or written… this is a sign of the mental illness. Just out of curiosity – among people who venerate Muhammad (PB&J), who is attested in the Quran as a child rapist who made his fortune as a highway robber, and believed he talked to angels and gods, what exactly is the standard for “mental illness” or antisocial behavior? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/277 "2015-04-15T23:29:01Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > It seems to generalise, in all honesty. Those who protest and call for bans necessarily are the ones who get air time. Yeah, this. **Haberdash** , you realize that you won’t find articles about all the protests that _didn’t_ occur, right? ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/278 "2015-04-15T23:32:46Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Yeah, this. **Haberdash** , you realize that you won’t find articles about all the protests that _didn’t_ occur, right? Wow, that’s a great angle. What about all the attempts to read, watch, or believe what I want in the United States that _weren’t_ forcibly suppressed by Muslims? Now that’s news! ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/279 "2015-04-15T23:33:56Z")
You could even run the headline “Muslim Woman Chooses Own Sexual Partner And Isn’t Set on Fire By Her Father and Brothers” as soon as you can find an instance of that happening! It’s a wonderful world. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/280 "2015-04-15T23:39:22Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Wow, that’s a great angle. What about all the attempts to read, watch, or believe what I want in the United States that _weren’t_ forcibly suppressed by Muslims? Now that’s news! Yeah, that’s the point. You claim that preventing others from seeing a film is “indicative of a tendency among Muslim political activists to just not care about American values and laws”…this ignores all the Muslim political activists that _don’t do that_. It’s horrible logic. > [@Haberdash](#): > > You could even run the headline “Muslim Woman Chooses Own Sexual Partner And Isn’t Set on Fire By Her Father and Brothers” as soon as you can find an instance of that happening! It’s a wonderful world. Oh. You’re either a troll, or so stupid as to be indistinguishable from one. Carry on, then. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=15)