# The Fallen Blogger and the Spectre of Secularism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827 "2015-02-28T03:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/641 "2015-05-04T19:03:29Z")
The “they deserved it” articles begin. > **[5 Things To Know About The Organizers Of Muhammad Cartoon Contest](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/05/04/404158281/5-things-to-know-about-the-organizers-of-mohammed-cartoon-contest)** > > The American Freedom Defense Initiative is considered a hate group by some, but the group says its Muhammad-drawing contest in Garland, Texas, was an event celebrating free speech. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/642 "2015-05-04T19:09:34Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > The “they deserved it” articles begin. > > [5 Things To Know About The Organizers Of Muhammad Cartoon Contest : The Two-Way : NPR](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/05/04/404158281/5-things-to-know-about-the-organizers-of-mohammed-cartoon-contest) Nowhere in that article does anyone say or imply to even the slightest extent that the organizers of this Troll-the-Muslims-with-Cartoons event in any way “deserved” to be violently attacked. Once again, **Haberdash** proves himself completely unable to distinguish between criticizing an individual or organization and claiming that the individual or organization you’re criticizing somehow “deserves” to be the victim of violence. But we don’t really expect anything better of **Haberdash** by this time. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/643 "2015-05-04T19:11:57Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Meanwhile, Slate chose today to run this piece: > > [Ayaan Hirsi Ali Time article “Beware of Michiganistan”: What she doesn’t understand about American Muslims.](http://www.slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2015/05/ayaan_hirsi_ali_time_article_beware_of_michiganistan_what_she_doesn_t_understand.html) > > I would have assumed Ali learned quite enough about Islam from being a Muslim for the first thirty years of her life, or from being held down and having her genitalia carved out at age five, or from the seven years she spent working in shelters for abused women fleeing Muslim marriages. I wonder what she learned from being a [documented liar](http://www.wluml.org/news/hirsi-ali-telling-critic-islamophobe). ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/644 "2015-05-04T19:14:52Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Meanwhile, Slate chose today to run this piece: > > [Ayaan Hirsi Ali Time article “Beware of Michiganistan”: What she doesn’t understand about American Muslims.](http://www.slate.com/articles/life/faithbased/2015/05/ayaan_hirsi_ali_time_article_beware_of_michiganistan_what_she_doesn_t_understand.html) > > I would have assumed Ali learned quite enough about Islam from being a Muslim for the first thirty years of her life, or from being held down and having her genitalia carved out at age five, or from the seven years she spent working in shelters for abused women fleeing Muslim marriages. But anyone who speaks against these practices is the enemy so we’ll leave all of that out of the article; the only legitimate topic is “Islamophobia” and why people who have a problem with this culture are wrong. Nowhere in that article does anybody say or imply to even the slightest extent that anyone who speaks against oppressive practices in Muslim cultures is “the enemy”. Nor does anybody say or imply to even the slightest extent that Islamophobia is “the only legitimate topic” to discuss concerning Muslims and assimilation. Thanks for the links, though: the articles are thoughtful and informative, even though, as usual, they’re not actually saying anything like what you claim they say. (Actually, they’re thoughtful and informative **because** they’re not saying anything like what you claim they say.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/645 "2015-05-04T19:20:20Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > In addition to the weeks we have to look forward to of justifications for the attack, I also am not going to be happy about all the people claiming that if only we had a “hate speech” law to shut down this event, none of this ever would have happened. I’m making concrete predictions that I will refer back to when they come to pass later And so far, you have come up with zero evidence of anybody attempting to actually “justify” the attack, much less arguing that it should have been “shut down” by a “hate speech” law. If anyone does attempt to make such arguments, of course, I will gladly agree that they are flat-out wrong to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/646 "2015-05-04T19:22:23Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > I wonder what she learned from being a [documented liar](http://www.wluml.org/news/hirsi-ali-telling-critic-islamophobe). Don’t shoot! Yes, she falsified an asylum application saying she was from Somalia rather than Kenya. Millions of people do what they can to immigrate to superior Western countries every year. I fault none of them for it. What does this have to do with her knowledge of Islam? What does it have to do with the pointed decision to run an article about “Islamophobia” and why any critic of Islam can’t be trusted as the immediate response to another Islamic murder plot against cartoonists? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/647 "2015-05-04T19:24:14Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Don’t shoot! Why are you saying “Don’t shoot!”? ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/648 "2015-05-04T19:24:50Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Nowhere in that article does anyone say or imply to even the slightest extent that the organizers of this Troll-the-Muslims-with-Cartoons event in any way “deserved” to be violently attacked. Just like a “men’s rights” site running an article about what a short-skirt wearing slut a rape victim is, like clockwork, every time there’s a rape. You would judge that as just providing information, as you do dhimmi media sites running articles about what a hateful Islamophobe a terrorism victim is, like clockwork, every time there’s an Islamic incident. Nothing means anything, there is no context, no one ever reads between the lines to get the obvious point of the message. You probably think Moby-Dick is a rollicking tale about killing whales. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/649 "2015-05-04T19:25:50Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Don’t shoot! At least _try_ to use a different joke each time, if you insist on digging yourself deeper like this. > [@](#): > > Yes, she falsified an asylum application saying she was from Somalia rather than Kenya. That’s not all she lied about. > [@](#): > > What does this have to do with her knowledge of Islam? What does it have to do with the pointed decision to run an article about “Islamophobia” and why any critic of Islam can’t be trusted as the immediate response to another Islamic murder plot against cartoonists? Because if she’s willing to lie about what supposedly happened to her and use those lies as part of her anti-Islam crusade, what _else_ is she willing to lie about as part of her anti-Islam crusade? Read any of those books I recommended yet? Because I have lots more where those came from. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/650 "2015-05-04T19:28:17Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > Choose to accept some terrorism as a part of life? That is the only possible rational thing to do, and the bonus is that by doing it you deprive those responsible of the backlash they’re hoping for. 2005 wasn’t even a particularly high year for plane fatalities, INCLUDING September 11. The fuckwits prepared to do this sort of thing are few and far between. Ignore it, and you’re still massively safer stepping in a plane than you are driving a car to work. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/651 "2015-05-04T19:37:16Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Don’t shoot! What a vile little toad you are. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/652 "2015-05-04T19:45:29Z")
> **[The American Muslim (TAM)](http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/a_defense_of_free_speech_by_american_and_canadian_muslims)** > > The original, The American Muslim was founded in 1989. The site actively published 25 years of content. Like the magazine, > the online publication strove to to support and recognize American Muslims, to provide information about Islam in America,... > [@](#): > > Posted Oct 26, 2010 > > A DEFENSE OF FREE SPEECH BY AMERICAN AND CANADIAN MUSLIMS > > We, the undersigned, unconditionally condemn any intimidation or threats of violence directed against any individual or group exercising the rights of freedom of religion and speech; even when that speech may be perceived as hurtful or reprehensible. > > We are concerned and saddened by the recent wave of vitriolic anti-Muslim and anti-Islamic sentiment that is being expressed across our nation. > > We are even more concerned and saddened by threats that have been made against individual writers, cartoonists, and others by a minority of Muslims. We see these as a greater offense against Islam than any cartoon, Qur’an burning, or other speech could ever be deemed. > > We affirm the right of free speech for Molly Norris, Matt Stone, Trey Parker, and all others including ourselves. > > As Muslims, we must set an example of justice, patience, tolerance, respect, and forgiveness. > > […] > > SIGNATORIES: > > Prof. Hassan Abbas, Quaid-i-Azam Chair, South Asia Institute, Columbia University > Anisa Abd el Fattah, Founder and Chairwoman, National Association of Muslim American Women (NAMAW) > Khaled M Abdel-Hamid, MD, PhD, writer > Ammar Abdulhamid, Executive Director, Tharwa Foundation > Imam Johari Abdul Malik, Director of Outreach, Dar-Al-Hijrah Islamic Center > Salma Elkadi Abugideiri, Co-Director, Peaceful Families Project > Aly R. Abuzaakouk, VP Minaret of Freedom Instit., Managing Editor “Democracy Watch” of CSID, Dir. of Foreign Relations: Network of Arab Journalists > Mehnaz M. Afridi, PhD, Adjunct Professor (Judaism, Islam & Genocide Studies) Antioch University > Asma Afsaruddin, PhD, Professor of Islamic Studies, Indiana University, Bloomington > Imad-ad-Dean Ahmad, PhD, Director, Minaret of Freedom Foundation > Ahrar Ahmad, PhD, Professor of Political Science, Black Hills State University > Prof. Akbar S. Ahmed, PhD, Ibn Khaldun Chair of Islamic Studies, American University > Osman Ahmed,PhD, President Islamic Society of Essex County, Newark, NJ > Prof. Parvez Ahmed, PhD, Fulbright Scholar & Assoc. Prof. Univ. of North Florida > Levent Akbarut, Steering Committee member, Islamic Congregation of La Canada Flintridge > Prof. M.Akhtar, President, Muslim Council of America and author of “Muslim Famly in a Dilemma” > Barbara Al-Bayati, Co-Founder, Orphan Whispers > Aman Ali, writer, stand-up-comedian > Javed Ali, founder and publisher, Illume magazine > Wajahat Ali, playwright, journalist, and producer of “Domestic Crusaders” > Sumbul Ali-Karamali, JD, LLM (Islamic Law), author of “The Muslim Next Door” > Shaykh al-Hajj Dawud Ahmad al-Amriki, Director, Muslim America > Salam al-Marayati, Pres., Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) > Shahed Amanullah, Editor-in-Chief, Altmuslim > Dr. Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na’im, Charles Howard Candler Professor of Law, Emory University School of Law > Patricia Anton, Board member, Muslim Peace Fellowship > M. Saud Anwar, Co-Chair, American Muslim Peace Initiative > Reza Aslan, Author, Activist, and CEO, Aslan Media > Abdul Cader Asmal MD, PhD, Past President, Islamic Council of Mew England > Aref Assaf, PhD, President, American Arab Forum > Hussam Ayloush, Exec. Director, CAIR Greater Los Angeles Area > Robert Azzi, photojournalist, writer > Imam Yusuf Badat, Islamic Foundation of Toronto and Mathabah Foundation > Laleh Bakhtiar, PhD, Scholar-in-Residence, Kazi Publications > Hazami Barmada, Pres, American Muslim Interactive Network (AMIN) > Bahar Bastani, M.D., Professor of Medicine, S.L.U., Secy. General Shia Islamic Education Center, VP of IMANA-St. Louis > Victor Ghalib Begg, Senior Advisor, Chairman Emeritus, Council of Islamic Organizations of Michigan > Zahra Billoo, Director, CAIR San Francisco Bay Area > Omer Bin Abdullah, Journalist, Editor > Jannah bint Hannah, activist, al-Fatiha Foundation > Farah Brelvi, Board of Directors, ACLU-NC > Arsalan Bukhari, Executive Director, CAIR-WA > M. Ali Chaudry, PhD, President, Center for Understanding Islam (CUII) > Kamran Cheikh, Activist, Committee member, Muslims for Peace, Justice & Progress (MPJP), researcher for Deen Research Center (DRC) > Noor-Malika Chishti, Vice Chair, So. CA Committee for a Parliament of the World’s Religions, Representative, the Sufi Order International, Member, World Council of Muslims for Interfaith Relations > Sakina Cornell, Risk Management Coordinator, PSA Healthcare > Vincent J. Cornell PhD, Asa Griggs Candler Prof. of Middle East and Islamic Studies, Department of Middle Eastern and South Asian Studies, Emory University > Robert D. Crane, JD, author of numerous books > Prof Golam Dastagir, PhD, Visiting Research Scholar, New College, University of Toronto, Canada > Almoonir Dewji, blogger - “That We May Know Each Other” > Mustafa Stefan Dill, blogger;/PR/social media analyst for Muslim issues; musician > Nabil Echchaibi, Asst. Professor of Journalism and Communication, Assoc. Director of the Center for Media, Religion and Culture, University of Colorado-Boulder > Ramsey El-Moslimany, member, Board of Directors, Islamic School of Seattle > Lamia El-Sadek, political and human rights activitist > Mohamed Elsanousi, Director of Communications and Community Outreach for the Islamic Society of N America (ISNA) > Mona Eltahawy, journalist > Dr. Hashim El-Tinay, President, International Peace Quest Institute (IPQI) > Sabina England, playwright & filmmaker, writer > Aziz Enhaili, Political analyst, columnist for Tolerance.ca > Yusuf Estes, Chaplain ret., author of many books, public speaker > Prof. Mohammad Fadel, PhD > Fatemeh Fakhraie, Editor-in-Chief, Muslimah Media Watch > Melissa Finn, Ph.D Candidate, Political Science, York University, Canada > Ali Galedary, Assistant Principal, University High School, Los Angeles > Mike Ghouse, President, World Muslim Congress > Iftekhar Hai, President, UMA Interfaith Alliance > Asma Hanif, Executive Director, Muslimat Al Nisaa > Rabia Terri Harris, Founder and Coordinator, Muslim Peace Fellowship > Hesham Hassaballa, M.D., author, journalist, blogger - “God, faith, and a pen” > Amir Hussain, PhD, Professor of Theological Studies, Loyola Marymount University > Iftekhar Hussain, Chair, Board of Directors, CAIR-PA > Arsalan Iftikhar, author, human rights lawyer, blogger - “The Muslim Guy” > S. Reshma Inamdar, Northern California Islamic Council, Board and Chair of SEMAH Inc. > Jeffrey Imm, Director, Responsible for Equality And Liberty (R.E.A.L.) > Ghazala Irshad, journalist, blogger - “The Floating Lotus” > Nakia Jackson, writer > Anjum Jaleel, writer > M. Zuhdi Jasser, MD, President, American Islamic Forum for Democracy > Safi Kaskas, President & CEO Strategic Edge > Mohja Kahf, PhD, Assoc. Professor of Comparative Literature, Univ. of Arkansas, author “The Girl in the Tangerine Scarf” > Dr. Nazir Khaja, Founder, Council of Pakistani American Afffairs (COPAA) > Dr. Asad U Khan, President, Islamic education Foundation of Manitoba > Mohammed Azhar Ali Khan, C.M., O. Ontario, President, Muslim Coordinating Council of the National Capital Region of Canada > Prof. Muqtedar Khan, PhD, author of several books, Blogger - “Globalog” > Sameen Khan, Freelance Journalist and Research Assistant at Middle East Institute, D.C. > Dr. Mohamed Khodr, Retired Physician and Public Health Director > Farah Kinani, Journalist, blogger - “Global Voices” > Michael Muhammad Knight, author “The Taqwacores” and several books > Scott Kugle (Siraj al-Haqq), PhD, Prof. of Islamic Studies, Dept. of Middle Eastern and South Asian Studies, Emory University > Shaikh Ahmad Kutty, Resident Senior Scholar, Islamic Institute of Toronto > Faisal Kutty, Visiting Asst. Prof. of law, Valparaiso University School of Law and Adjunct Professor of Law, Osgoode Hall Law School (Toronto) > Randa Kuziez, co-founder of Maded, active in interfaith > M. Junaid Levesque-Alam, writer, blogger - “Crossing the Crescent” > David Liepert, M.D., Director and Spokesperson, Muslim Council of Calgary, V.P. Faith of Life Network, blogger and author of “Muslim, Christian AND Jew” > Afaun Mandol, Board of Directors, MuslimFest > Radwan A. Masmoudi, PhD, President, Center for the Study of Islam & Democracy (CSID) > Melissa Matos, President, Al-Ghazali Legal Society, Saint Louis University > Prof. Uzma Mazhar, writer > Shelina Merani, community activist, artist, blogger “Muslim Presence” > Ruxana Meer, Esq. > Yahya Merchant, Interfaith Worker, Outreach contact for Islamic Center of Conejo Valley CA > Melody Moezzi, JD, MPH, writer and attorney > Muna Abshir Mohamud, author, editor > Daniel Abdal-Hayy Moore, author of many books of poetry > Ebrahim Moosa, Assoc. Professor of Islamic Studies, Dept. of Religion, Duke University > Ann El-Moslimany, PhD, Islamic School of Seattle > Lt. Col. Abdul-Rasheed Muhammad, U.S. Army Chaplain > Toure’ Muhammad, Director Ummahstream > Imam Abdul Malik Mujahid, President Sound Vision > Arman Musaji, artist > Sheila Musaji, Editor, The American Muslim (TAM) > Muneeb Nasir, President, Olive Tree Foundation, Editor IQRA Canada > Q. Amin Nathari, National Representative, Islam in America Movement (IAM) > Ahmed Naumaan, PhD, Director, Karsaz Inc. > Imam Abdul Hai Patel, Dir. Interfaith Relations, Canadian Council of Imams, Muslim Chaplain University of Toronto & York Regional Police > Aziz H. Poonawalla, PhD, scientist and blogger - “City of Brass” on Beliefnet > M.Waheed-uz-Zaman Rana, Imam, Prof. Emeritus, Dept. of Surgery, Saint Louis University > Hasan Zillur Rahim, PhD, journalist > Shaykh Ahmed Abdur Rashid, The Circle Group > Prof. Hussein Rashid, PhD, blogger - “Religion Dispatches” > Shafi Refai, President, United Muslims of America > Zeenat Rehman, co-founder of “The Hijabi Monologues” > Wilfredo A. Ruiz, Esq., Legal Counsel & Chaplain, Executive Director “American Muslims for Emergency and Relief (AMER) > Irfan Rydhan, Co-Founder of Muslim Unity Foundation > Muhamed Sacirbey, lawyer, diplomat, writer > Louay Safi, PhD, Common Word Fellow, Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Center for Christian Muslim Understanding, Georgetown University > Ghulam Abbas Sajan, Director Islamic Ahlul Bayt Assembly of Canada > Robert Salaam, blogger - “The American Muslim” > Shahla Khan Salter, Chair of Muslims for Progressive Values Ottawa, Canada > Raquel Evita Saraswati, activist, writer, blogger > Sarah Sayeed, President of One Blue > Corey Saylor, National Legislative Director, Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) > Vernon James Schubel, NEH Distinguished Teaching Professor of Religious Studies, Kenyon College > Sophia Rose Shafi, MA, MTS, doctoral candidate (Islamic Studies), writer > Nehal M. Shah, Executive Director, the Alim Foundation > T.O. Shanavas. MD, Vice President, Islamic Research Foundation, author > S. Abdallah Schleifer, Distinguished Prof., Dept. of Journalism & Mass Com, American University Cairo > Ricka Shorish, M.S., R.N., volunteer/consultant, Avicenna Community Health Center > Jihad Shoshara, community organizer and activist, Chicago > Jafar Siddiqui, blogger - “Penjihad” > Prof. Laury Silvers, PhD > Gwendolyn Zoharah Simmons, PhD, Sr. Lecturer, Islamic Studies & African American Religion, University of Florida > Aisha Sultan, syndicated columnist, St. Louis Post-Dispatch > Prof. Ibrahim B. Syed, PhD, President of Islamic Research Foundation International, Inc., author > Dr. Sayyid M. Syeed, Nat’l Director, Office for Interfaith & Community Alliances, Islamic Society of N America (ISNA) > Dr. Mahmoud Shawky Taman, Islamic Society of Northern Wisconsin > Haris Tarin, Director, Washington DC Office Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) > J.Tayeb, MD, President, CAIR-MI, ISNA founders committee member, Vice chair, HUDA free Clinic, Detroit > Pamela Taylor, Co-founder Muslims for Progressive Values, Panelist for On Faith > Tayyibah Taylor, Editor, Azizah Magazine > Mahdi Toourage, PhD, Assistant Prof., U of Western Ontaio > Tarik Trad, writer, humorist, photographer, artist and activist > Asma T. Uddin, Attorney, The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty and Editor, Altmuslimah > Joya Uraizee, Associate Professor of English, Saint Louis University > Wahida Valiante, President, Canadian Islamic Congress and Chair of Islamic History Month Canada > Jason van Boom, Host of “Islam and Authors”, writer > Samia van Hattum, social worker > Amina Wadud, PhD, consultant on Islam and gender, visiting scholar Starr King School for the Ministry > Danya Wellmon, Co-Founder Women Transcending Boundaries interfaith group > Svend White, blogger - “Akram’s Razor”, activist, writer > G. Willow Wilson, author of “Butterfly Mosque” and “Air” graphic novel series > Sara M. Zaidi, Adjunct Professor of Education, CUNY Hunter College > Sofian Abdelaziz Zakkout, Director, American Muslim Association of North America, (AMANA) > Ani Zonneveld, President, Muslims for Progressive Values ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/653 "2015-05-04T19:58:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why are you saying “Don’t shoot!”? See post #628. **Haberdash** is calling **A’isha** a terrorist because she’s a Muslim. Apparently he thinks that’s funny, or something. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/654 "2015-05-04T19:58:38Z")
One of those signatories was later arrested for vandalizing one of Pam Gellar’s bus ads. I guess the free speech message didn’t take. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/655 "2015-05-04T20:04:33Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > One of those signatories was later arrested for vandalizing one of Pam Gellar’s bus ads. I guess the free speech message didn’t take. > **[Mona Eltahawy: Time to stop treating women like cheap bargaining chip](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/mona-eltahawy-it-s-time-to-stop-treating-women-like-a-cheap-bargaining-chip-10093618.html)** > > The award-winning writer and activist on how reporting from Cairo and Saudi Arabia fired her up to call for a sexual revolution > [@](#): > > “For some people religion becomes their only form of expression and opposition and it can take a very violent turn,” she says. “This is not a majority of people who identify as Muslim. We are showing you can still belong to this religion; you can still be a Muslim and find other ways of expressing your divisions that do not involve this horrific level of violence.” > > Eltahawy, 47, chose a non-violent way to protest. In 2012, she was arrested for spray-painting an anti-Muslim advert in New York. Nonetheless, she supports free speech and received her first death threats after defending the right of a Danish newspaper to publish cartoons of the Prophet Mohamed. > > She has just finished her first book – _Headscarves and Hymens: Why the Middle East Needs a Sexual Revolution_, which comes out in the UK in May. It is an extension of her essay _Why Do They Hate Us?_, which provoked huge controversy in 2012 for its examination of misogyny in the Arab world. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/656 "2015-05-04T20:08:15Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > One of those signatories was later arrested for vandalizing one of Pam Gellar’s bus ads. I guess the free speech message didn’t take. Oh, and it’s _Geller_, not Gellar. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/657 "2015-05-04T20:16:26Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Just like a “men’s rights” site running an article about what a short-skirt wearing slut a rape victim is, like clockwork, every time there’s a rape. Does the article actually state or imply that the rape victim **deserved** to get raped for wearing a short skirt? (Generally they aren’t shy about making that clear.) If not, then criticizing somebody as immodest or “slutty” for wearing a short skirt, however much I personally may disagree with such criticism in its own right, is not the same thing as saying she “deserves” to be raped. It is perfectly possible (though apparently rather rare) for a conservative and/or sexist person to believe **both** that wearing a short skirt is immodest or “slutty” behavior **and** that rape is inexcusable and nobody deserves to be raped. Similarly, criticizing Islamophobes for being hateful bigots, _however much you personally may disagree with such criticism in its own right_, is not the same thing as saying they “deserve” to be attacked by terrorists. It is perfectly possible, and not at all rare, for non-Islamophobes to believe **both** that Islamophobes are hateful bigots **and** that terror attacks are abhorrent and heinous crimes and nobody, Islamophobic or otherwise, deserves to be attacked by terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/658 "2015-05-04T21:10:22Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > [Mona Eltahawy: It's time to stop treating women like a cheap bargaining chip | The Independent | The Independent](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/mona-eltahawy-its-time-to-stop-treating-women-like-a-cheap-bargaining-chip-10093618.html) Don’t shoot! Look, you do not “support free speech” if you physically destroy speech you don’t like. That’s exactly what “support free speech” doesn’t mean. Defending Eltahawy only makes me ask how many other people on the list signed knowing that the “free speech” they were endorsing doesn’t extend to anti-Muslim expressions. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/659 "2015-05-04T21:12:10Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Does the article actually state or imply that the rape victim **deserved** to get raped for wearing a short skirt? (Generally they aren’t shy about making that clear.) Yes, of course, the very existence of such an article “implies” it. That’s the only reason such an article would exist. > [@](#): > > It is perfectly possible (though apparently rather rare) for a conservative and/or sexist person to believe **both** that wearing a short skirt is immodest or “slutty” behavior **and** that rape is inexcusable and nobody deserves to be raped. I have a bridge to sell you, assuming Muslims haven’t blown it up yet. > [@](#): > > It is perfectly possible, and not at all rare, for non-Islamophobes to believe **both** that Islamophobes are hateful bigots **and** that terror attacks are abhorrent and heinous crimes and nobody, Islamophobic or otherwise, deserves to be attacked by terrorists. It’s not plausible for the immediate response to every attack to be a list of the sins of the victim, and for the reason to be anything but making it obvious that the lister believes the victim deserved it. Metaphysical possibility isn’t the same as the actual reasons why people do things. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/660 "2015-05-04T21:20:08Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Don’t shoot! Look, do you need me to help you come up with some new, creative insults for me? Like, “I’m amazed you could see through your _burqa_ well enough to hit ‘reply’”. Because what you’re doing is just _sad._ > [@](#): > > Look, you do not “support free speech” if you physically destroy speech you don’t like. That’s exactly what “support free speech” doesn’t mean. Defending Eltahawy only makes me ask how many other people on the list signed knowing that the “free speech” they were endorsing doesn’t extend to anti-Muslim expressions. > **[Mona Eltahawy and the anti-Muslim subway ads: is hers the right approach? |...](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/26/mona-eltahawy-anti-muslim-subway-ads)** > > Ruth Spencer: The Egyptian American writer defaced a New York subway poster she said promotes hate. Did she have other options? > [@](#): > > “Mona, do you think you have the right to do this?” Eltahawy was asked. “I do, actually,” Eltahawy replied, adding: “I think this is freedom of expression, just as [the ad] is freedom of expression.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=34)