# The Fallen Blogger and the Spectre of Secularism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827 "2015-02-28T03:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/781 "2015-05-08T13:45:07Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > [Mentally ill woman battered to death by angry mob for burning the Koran](http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/afghanistan-mentally-ill-woman-battered-death-by-angry-mob-burning-koran-1492776) > > It was later revealed that she was neither mentally ill nor burning the Koran, and was in fact a teacher of the Koran. And it was even later revealed that [thousands of people in Afghanistan marched in protest of her murder](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-32034036), and four of her murderers received death sentences and eight more of them were sentenced to 16 years in prison. But you didn’t know that, because you don’t actually care about Farkhunda and what happened to her, except as a way to bash Muslims. Gilles Kepel’s Jihad: The Trail of Political Islam is an interesting book not just because of its thesis (that the increase Islamic terrorism represents not the success of the fundamentalists but their failure, the violent death throes of a dying movement) but because it’s an exhaustively-researched book written mostly before 9/11 (though he briefly touches on those attacks in an afterword). Reading it now, in the light of the US destabilization of Iraq and the Arab Spring and its aftermath (the rise of ISIS in Syria, the fall of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt) is quite thought-provoking. > [@Haberdash](#): > > [Indonesian Islamic parties seek alcohol ban](http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/asia/2015/04/14/Indonesian-lawmakers-propose-bill-to-ban-alcohol-consumption.html) Hidden Iran: Paradox and Power in the Islamic Republic, by Ray Takeyh is somewhat outdated in that it was published before the Green Movement protests during the 2009 election and the election of Hassan Rouhani in 2013. However, it provides a revealing look at the power structures and factions within Iran, internal divisions that led to both of those post-publication developments. Iran is generally thought of as some kind of monolithic theocracy, when the truth is far, _far_ more complex, and this book is an excellent guide to understanding just what makes Iran tick. > [@Haberdash](#): > > [Maldives enacts criminal code based on draft by law prof and students](http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/maldives_enacts_criminal_code_based_on_draft_by_law_prof_and_students) For a change, here I’m not going to recommend a book, but a scholarly article: [The Etymological Fallacy and Quranic Studies: Muhammad, Paradise, and Late Antiquity](http://www.safarmer.com/Indo-Eurasian/Walid_Saleh.pdf), by Walid Saleh. The core of it is a very thorough and utterly brutal dismantling of Christoph Luxenberg’s load of nonsense (which garnered a lot of attention in the mainstream press a few years back) about how the Qur’an is really a collection of Christian texts written in Syriac and that Arab-speaking Muslims for the last 1400 years haven’t been aware of this. But in order to get there, Saleh’s article takes the reader on a fascinating tour of how the fallacious use of etymology and philology has been an unfortunately common feature in Western quranic scholarship. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/782 "2015-05-08T14:20:38Z")
> [@Doctor\_Why\_Bother](#): > > Nonetheless, there is, obviously, a strong cultural taboo against such depictions. While only a handful of muslims have killed cartoonists over them, tens of thousands rioted when the Jyllands-Posten cartoons were published, and opinion polls show that, even in secular countries like the UK, a clear majority of muslims oppose depictions of Muhammed. If, as I feel I must now concede, this taboo doesn’t arise from scripture, where does it come from? You again answered your own question: cultural traditions. A lot of what’s considered “Islamic”, by both Muslims and non-Muslims, is not actually rooted in scripture, but arises from cultural tradition. > [@](#): > > Besides, there are other incidents which go the other way. When, in 2005, it was merely _rumoured_ that guards at Guantanamo Bay had defaced a Koran there were violent anti-American protests all over the middle east. Which undoubtedly had a lot to do with the fact that it supposedly took place at the US’ _torture and prison camp_. > [@](#): > > I’m talking about satirising Muhammed directly. _That_, undeniably, carries significant risk. And, contrary to what you and **Gyrate** are saying, it doesn’t require intimate knowledge of Islam or Muhammed to carry off. It kind of does, because otherwise it’s not satire, it’s just dumb insulting jokes that don’t actually have anything to do with Muhammad or his message, but would work just as well (or just as poorly) if you cut-and-pasted his name with the name of someone else. > [@](#): > > _Most_ religious satire is dumb and unsophisticated. I wouldn’t count anything “dumb and unsophisticated” as _satire_. If you’re just telling stupid jokes that work the same way no matter who is the target and don’t actually _say_ anything about that target because you’re not actually making any kind of reference to what the target has said and done, it’s not satire. At any rate, **Miller** more than adequately addressed your other points. There’s a whole ton of contextual baggage that’s at play when it comes to depictions of Muhammad, and the problem isn’t the depictions themselves so much as it’s seen (and used, by both haters like Geller and fundamentalist inciters like [Ahmed Akkari](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Akkari)) as a direct attack on Islam and Muslims. That’s why some images of Muhammad cause riots and death threats when they’re published, and others don’t…even when [they’re the same images](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Fagr) sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/783 "2015-05-08T14:27:16Z")
Yesterday, [this](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/05/07/u-s-holocaust-museum-says-this-muslim-minority-could-face-genocide/)happened: > [@](#): > > The official American institution memorializing the Holocaust sounded the alarm this week on the threat of a genocide facing the beleaguered Rohingya of Burma, one of the world’s most neglected communities. A report published by the Simon-Skjodt Center for the Prevention of Genocide, a wing of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, charted the persecution, violence and systematic discrimination endured by this Muslim minority, and warned that it was a “population at grave risk for additional mass atrocities and even genocide.” > > […] > > Ethnic violence in 2012 led to tens of thousands of Rohingya fleeing to miserable, squalid camps; countless others have chosen to leave the country altogether, sometimes at hideous cost. The waters of the Andaman Sea and the jungles of Thailand still hold the unclaimed corpses of many Rohingya, whose vulnerable position on the margins of the Burmese state have made them prey to human traffickers. > > The Simon-Skjodt Center’s report was partly based on a fact-finding mission to Rakhine state in March, in which the researchers found what they deemed were “early warning signs of genocide.” And how does champion of free speech Pamela Geller feel about the Rohingya? [That they deserve what’s happening to them for being Muslim in a non-Muslim country, of course.](http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/44591_Pamela_Geller-_Burmese_Muslims_Had_It_Coming) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/784 "2015-05-08T14:37:04Z")
Speaking of Pamela Geller, it turns out that she and Robert Spencer are responsible for [four different anti-Islam groups](http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/a-few-people-lead-many-of-the-anti-muslim-groups-in-the-u-s/) tracked by the SPLC, and in fact many similar groups are funded and run by a relatively small group of people in America hiding behind multiple organizations. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/785 "2015-05-08T14:51:21Z")
> [@gyrate](#): > > speaking of pamela geller, it turns out that she and robert spencer are responsible for [four different anti-islam groups](http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/a-few-people-lead-many-of-the-anti-muslim-groups-in-the-u-s/) tracked by the splc, and in fact many similar groups are funded and run by a relatively small group of people in america hiding behind multiple organizations. stop helping the mooslims kill us all, traitor. . ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/786 "2015-05-08T15:37:50Z")
Yes, the board automatically converts messages in all-caps to lowercase. I think it’s to annoy trolls. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/787 "2015-05-08T18:09:05Z")
It works. I’m annoyed. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/788 "2015-05-08T21:45:46Z")
Some good news: [Norway ends blasphemy law after Hebdo attack](http://www.thelocal.no/20150507/norway-scraps-blasphemy-law-after-hebdo-attacks) > [@](#): > > Norway has scrapped its longstanding blasphemy law, meaning it is now legal to mock the beliefs of others, in a direct response to January’s brutal attack on the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo. > > The proposal to rush through the change was made in February by Conservative MP Anders B. Werp and Progress Party MP Jan Arild Ellingsen, who argued that the law “underpins a perception that religious expressions and symbols are entitled to a special protection”. > > “This is very unfortunate signal to send, and it is time that society clearly stands up for freedom of speech,” the two wrote in their proposal. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/789 "2015-05-08T23:16:29Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Some good news: > > [Norway ends blasphemy law after Hebdo attack](http://www.thelocal.no/20150507/norway-scraps-blasphemy-law-after-hebdo-attacks) Now how did I know that when I followed the link, I’d find something like this: > [@](#): > > The last time anyone was tried for blasphemy in Norway was back in 1933, when the writer Arnulf Overland was prosecuted for giving a lecture titled “Christianity, the tenth plague” to the Norwegian Students’ Society. He was acquitted. > > The last time anyone was actually convicted was in 1912, when the journalist Arnfred Olsen was taken to court for an article criticising Christianity in the radical magazine Freethinkers. There aren’t enough :rolleyes: in the world… ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/790 "2015-05-10T10:29:03Z")
[Islamists jailed for chopping of teacher’s hand ‘because exam paper insulted Prophet Mohamed’](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/islamists-jailed-for-chopping-of-teachers-hand-because-exam-paper-insulted-prophet-mohamed-10238701.html) > [@](#): > > A group of Islamists who cut off a teacher’s hand in revenge for “blasphemy” against the Prophet Mohamed have been jailed in India. > > The 13 men, all members of radical group the Popular Front of India, were handed sentences of between three and eight years at a National Investigative Agency court, NDTV reported. > [@](#): > > Mr Joseph said he named the character after film director P. T. Kunju Muhammed and did not realise the people would associate the common name with the Muslim Prophet. > > But a local newspaper did a story on the question paper, sparking controversy , protests and allegations of blasphemy in the community. > > Police arrested the professor for “outraging religious feelings”, although he was later acquitted of all charges, and Newman College suspended him from work. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/791 "2015-05-10T12:29:34Z")
:rolleyes: Are you planning to post every story you find where some nutcase did a bad thing? You do realize that even in their own country they were treated as criminals, not heroes. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/792 "2015-05-10T14:16:23Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > :rolleyes: > > Are you planning to post every story you find where some nutcase did a bad thing? If only this mook were as dedicated to bringing attention to the scourge of drunk driving in this country, which kills far more people than any acts of terrorism, Islamist or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/793 "2015-05-10T18:13:48Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You do realize that even in their own country they were treated as criminals, not heroes. Well, so was the professor, initially… ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/794 "2015-05-10T18:41:50Z")
[Cotler Seeks to Restore Anti-Hate Speech Provisions in Human Rights Act](http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1339530-cotler-seeks-to-restore-anti-hate-speech-provisions-in-human-rights-act/) > [@](#): > > Liberal MP Irwin Cotler introduced a private member’s bill this week that would restore provisions against hate speech to the Canadian Human Rights Act. > > He wants to partially undo a Conservative bill that repealed the hate speech provisions in Section 13 of the act that took effect in 2013 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/795 "2015-05-11T11:24:01Z")
> **[Myanmar court jails three for insulting Buddhism](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/3/17/myanmar-court-jails-three-for-insulting-buddhism)** > > Trio, including a New Zealand national, convicted over Facebook post showing a depiction of Buddha wearing headphones. Myanmar court sentences three people to 2 years of prison for representing the Buddha with headphones on. This has nothing to do with the stated goal of this thread whatsoever and one is entitled to wonder why I’m bringing this up in the first place. For about three seconds. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/796 "2015-05-11T12:59:10Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/X_kuC35F06E/maxresdefault.jpg "Picture Perfect - SNL") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_kuC35F06E) Hehe… ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/797 "2015-05-11T13:09:27Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > [Islamists jailed for chopping of teacher’s hand ‘because exam paper insulted Prophet Mohamed’](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/islamists-jailed-for-chopping-of-teachers-hand-because-exam-paper-insulted-prophet-mohamed-10238701.html) His college did not support him out of fear and his wife committed suicide for having to undergo the mental trauma. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2015, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/798 "2015-05-11T13:19:37Z")
[Yes, it’s terrible when campaigns of bigotry and fear lead to the persecution of teachers and suicide](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/transgender-primary-school-teacher-who-took-own-life-had-sought-protection-from-media-hounding-before-her-death-8546468.html#). ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/799 "2015-05-12T05:38:21Z")
[Shock and horror as third secular Bangladeshi blogger hacked to death](http://www.themalaymailonline.com/world/article/shock-and-hooror-as-third-secular-bangladeshi-blogger-hacked-to-death-in) > [@](#): > > A masked gang wielding machetes hacked a secular blogger to death today in northeastern Bangladesh in the third such deadly attack since the start of the year, police said. > > “Attackers wearing masks hacked Ananta Bijoy Das with machetes in Sylhet city at around 8.30am this morning. We have learnt that he was a writer,” deputy commissioner of Sylhet police Faisal Mahmud told AFP. > > Imran Sarker, head of a Bangladeshi bloggers’ association, told AFP that Das was “an atheist and wrote blogs for Mukto-Mona”, a website which used to be moderated by Avijit Roy, a Bangladeshi-born US citizen who was himself hacked to death in the capital Dhaka in February. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/800 "2015-05-12T06:19:56Z")
[Indonesia’s underground atheists lay low after Facebook post that led to imprisonment](http://www.globalpost.com/article/6542699/2015/05/08/indonesias-underground-atheists-stay-under-radar-after-case-led) > [@](#): > > Alexander Aan understands better than most how Indonesia’s blasphemy laws work. > Aan’s conviction made international headlines in 2012 after an Indonesian court found him guilty of “stirring up hatred” when he posted on his personal Facebook account that “God does not exist.” > The former civil servant from West Sumatra spent nearly two years behind bars and is still putting his life back together since his release in 2014. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=41)