# The Fallen Blogger and the Spectre of Secularism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827 "2015-02-28T03:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 42
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/821 "2015-05-13T04:29:41Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > …Hinduvta cherry-picking of the report is blatantly obvious. his rhetoric since beginning has reflected the real background - the ‘they are originally hindus’ discourse (\*), early on before it was noted, that is only used by that fringe etc. (\*: it is interesting how the genocidiares from this kind of background fall into such similar language, ‘they were originally’ X and ‘nothing against the individual’ Y but the group is “poison” also used in the balkans in the march to justification of genocidal action. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/822 "2015-05-13T05:11:40Z")
Christian attacks issue has mostly been made up by the media as they have to run 24\*7 channels, and so they invent stories. The old nun was gangraped by illegal immigrants from Bangladesh who happened to be Muslims. Few other ‘attacks’ were found to be petty theft incidents and revenge for the church having complained to police for some other issue. The majority community(Hindus) and Christians have largely lived with harmony. Christian missionaries actually do charity work and convert Hindus to Christians. Hindu nationalists do not like it but that is how Christian population has increased in India. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/823 "2015-05-13T05:55:46Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Christian attacks issue has mostly been made up by the media as they have to run 24\*7 channels, and so they invent stories. Really? Did they make up the story of the joint general secretary of the [Vishva Hindu Parishad party](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishva_Hindu_Parishad) threatening more attacks on Christians and Christian churches? > [@](#): > > The old nun was gangraped by illegal immigrants from Bangladesh who happened to be Muslims. That’s who the authorities claimed it was, while the joint general secretary of a Hinduvta party threatened more attacks on churches. But Modi’s Hindu-nationalist government wouldn’t do anything like scapegoat Muslims while turning a blind eye to Hinduvta incitement and violence, right? > [@](#): > > Few other ‘attacks’ were found to be petty theft incidents and revenge for the church having complained to police for some other issue. “It’s just reprisal attacks by Hindu nationalists against Christians in retaliation for the Christians attempting to get police protection! What’s the big deal?” Do you even _read_ what you write? > [@](#): > > Hindu nationalists do not like it No they don’t, do they? ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/824 "2015-05-13T10:22:45Z")
Today’s news - 47 from shia minority gunned down in Karachi today. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/825 "2015-05-13T10:37:45Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Today’s news - > > 47 from shia minority gunned down in Karachi today. So…does this mean we should hate Muslims because they commit violence or that we should support Muslims as victims of violence or that it all averages out? Do you even know what your point is? ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/826 "2015-05-13T10:41:55Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So…does this mean we should hate Muslims because they commit violence or that we should support Muslims as victims of violence or that it all averages out? > > Do you even know what your point is? My point is that Islam is a cancer. When someone (rightly) abuses it, people should not feel the need to defend it . liberal Muslims should not ideally identify themselves with Islam. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/827 "2015-05-13T10:59:03Z")
> [@](#): > > In report on church attacks, Bassi told Centre: Theft in 206 temples last year > According to the data, 206 temples, 30 gurdwaras, 14 mosques and three churches were burgled in 2014. [In report on church attacks, Bassi told Centre: Theft in 206 temples last year | India News - The Indian Express](http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/in-report-on-church-attacks-bassi-told-centre-theft-in-206-temples-last-year/#sthash.k8OqRacX.dpuf) Nun was gangraped actually by Bangladeshi immigrants who happened to be Muslims. And then a story was invented by media that Christians may be under attack in India to fill their 24\*7 news slots. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/828 "2015-05-13T11:12:35Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > My point is that Islam is a cancer. When someone (rightly) abuses it, people should not feel the need to defend it . liberal Muslims should not ideally identify themselves with Islam. That’s a ridiculous point, particularly as it’s been pointed out repeatedly in this thread that other religions have plenty of examples of violent extremism. When someone abuses Christianity, does that make it a cancer? Should all Christian then repudiate the label? Should the faith be defined by the abortion clinic bombers and the lynchers of homosexuals, the Lord’s Resistance Army and the African priests torturing children accused of witchcraft, and the endless parade of priests and pastors who have been sexually abusing children for centuries? If not, how does that differ from Islam? Or Buddhism, or Hinduism or any religion with a large enough number of adherents to be able to dominate a particular culture and to have an extremist fringe? No one here is defending extremist violence. _No one_. So put away your little strawman. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/829 "2015-05-13T11:27:20Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That’s a ridiculous point, particularly as it’s been pointed out repeatedly in this thread that other religions have plenty of examples of violent extremism. When someone abuses Christianity, does that make it a cancer? Should all Christian then repudiate the label? Should the faith be defined by the abortion clinic bombers and the lynchers of homosexuals, the Lord’s Resistance Army and the African priests torturing children accused of witchcraft, and the endless parade of priests and pastors who have been sexually abusing children for centuries? If not, how does that differ from Islam? Or Buddhism, or Hinduism or any religion with a large enough number of adherents to be able to dominate a particular culture and to have an extremist fringe? > > No one here is defending extremist violence. _No one_. So put away your little strawman. It is wrong to compare Islam with other religions that all peacefully co-exist with other sects and religions in 21st century. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/830 "2015-05-13T11:39:50Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > It is wrong to compare Islam with other religions that all peacefully co-exist with other sects and religions in 21st century. I think the Christians subject to violence at the hand of mobs incited by people like Surendra Jain might disagree. But I’m sure that’s all the fault of the vast anti-Hindu media conspiracy within India, a country that’s 80% Hindu and which elected a Hindu nationalist prime minister, to forge attacks on Christians, cover up Muslim crimes, and generally make Hindus look bad, right? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/831 "2015-05-13T11:39:52Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > It is wrong to compare Islam with other religions that all peacefully co-exist with other sects and religions in 21st century. Except that those “other religions” don’t “all peacefully co-exist with other sects and religions in 21st century”. Of course if you handwave away evidence that disagrees with you while cherrypicking examples to support your point, you can pretty much claim anything you like. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/832 "2015-05-13T11:57:36Z")
Of course the UK [Financial Times](http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/3c6d9a92-2c08-11e4-b052-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3Zr3uTjis), [Deutsche Welle](http://www.dw.de/fear-grips-indias-christians-amid-church-attacks/a-18235914), etc are well known for lying and for making up stories to fit their agendas unlike the religious bigot extremists who would never do so and would never distort to pursue an religious “cleansing” agenda. and contrary the British novellist Orwell, they would never use the double language… ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/833 "2015-05-13T12:07:31Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > T… the OP gloweth anew. apparently it is glowing from shame for being so bigotted and stupid. Of course in the eastern south Asia region we now have the three examples of three countries with three different majority religions where there is very simply ethnic-religious political forcing and competition, where bigotted parties purusing for their own gains ethnic-religious majoritarian power are very similar purity discourses, contamination and foundation discourses - but from three different views: the India among the Hindu supramacist parties including quite murderous fractions, the Takfiri islamists in the Bangladesh attempting to intimidate, and the Budhdhist supramacist of the Myanmar. So if one is not simple minded and grotesquely bigoted, it is much more analytical to see that there is a competition of resources and it must be suspected the power competition over the resource and political power pies that are seen as more scarce. Of you can be with the empty headed bigots who lie and who lay the ground works for the ethnic cleansing, the suppression and eventually the genocides against minorities. It is obvious where the OP tends, one can see from the strategic silences. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/834 "2015-05-13T22:59:46Z")
Yes, strategic silence betrays a genocide of all Muslims. Or, I’d rather the machete make my argument for me. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/835 "2015-05-14T00:29:24Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Yes, strategic silence betrays a genocide of all Muslims. > > Or, I’d rather the machete make my argument for me. What a lying pile of shit. This is typical example of the result of the American news media not bothering to report things that would be inconvenient to explain. (They would not all lie that it never happens the way that Faux News will, but they do not bother to report when it happens.) There is no “strategic silence” except in the lying claims of the Islamophobes, (unless one is talking about the “strategic silence” of the media that declines to report when it happens). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/836 "2015-05-14T00:37:23Z")
[PROTESTERS DENOUNCE MURDER OF ATHEIST BLOGGER HACKED TO DEATH IN BANGLADESH](http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/02/27/protesters-denounce-murder-of-atheist-blogger-hacked-to-death-in-bangladesh/) [Statements by Muslim individuals and groups condemning terrorist attacks](http://www.religioustolerance.org/islfatwa.htm) [Gülen’s Condemnation Message of Terrorism](http://www.guleninstitute.org/news/97-gs-condemnation-message-of-terrorism.html) [Islamic Statements Against Terrorism](http://kurzman.unc.edu/islamic-statements-against-terrorism/) [Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks](http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php) [Muslim Council of Britain statement on machete murder](http://www.itv.com/news/london/update/2013-05-22/muslim-council-of-britain-statement-on-machete-murder/) ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/837 "2015-05-14T03:39:35Z")
[Gambia’s president threatens to slit the throats of gay men](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/05/12/gambias-president-threatens-to-slit-the-throats-of-gay-men/) > [@](#): > > “If you do it [in Gambia] I will slit your throat,” Jammeh said. “If you are a man and want to marry another man in this country and we catch you, no one will ever set eyes on you again, and no white person can do anything about it.” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/838 "2015-05-14T09:20:55Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > [Gambia’s president threatens to slit the throats of gay men](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/05/12/gambias-president-threatens-to-slit-the-throats-of-gay-men/) And in return I’ll give you [Ugandan MP David Bahati](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Uganda): > [@](#): > > Bahati introduced the The Anti Homosexuality Act, 2009, which would broaden the criminalization of same-sex relationships in Uganda\*\* and introduce the death penalty for serial offenders\*\*, HIV-positive people who engage in sexual activity with people of the same sex, and persons who engage in same-sex sexual acts with people under 18 years of age. Individuals or companies that promote LGBT rights would be fined or imprisoned, or both. Persons “in authority” would be required to report any offence under the Act within 24 hours or face up to three years’ imprisonment. And Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe said of homosexuals: > [@](#): > > It degrades human dignity. It’s unnatural, and there is no question ever of allowing these people to behave worse than dogs and pigs. If dogs and pigs do not do it, why must human beings? … What we are being persuaded to accept is sub-animal behavior and we will never allow it here. If you see people parading themselves as Lesbians and Gays, arrest them and hand them over to the police! Both are Roman Catholics. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/839 "2015-05-14T13:04:58Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Yes, strategic silence betrays a genocide of all Muslims. > > Or, I’d rather the machete make my argument for me. Could someone put this in English? Google Translate just returns gibberish. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/840 "2015-05-14T14:01:01Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > [Gambia’s president threatens to slit the throats of gay men](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/05/12/gambias-president-threatens-to-slit-the-throats-of-gay-men/) Robert Hoyland’s [Seeing Islam as Others Saw It: A Survey and Evaluation of Christian, Jewish and Zoroastrian Writings on Early Islam](http://www.amazon.com/Seeing-Islam-Others-Saw-Zoroastrian/dp/0878501258/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1431610328&sr=1-1) is a massive doorstopper of a book, a 900-page treasure trove of translations of virtually every non-Muslim source that mentions or refers to Islam during the Seventh and Eighth Centuries. As if that weren’t enough, the book also contains a detailed analysis of what all those sources (and what they say) means when it comes to determining the historical events and shape of early Islam. At $45 on Amazon right now for the hardcover, this book is pretty much a must-have for anyone interested in both the early history of Islam and how early Islam related to the other religions and societies of Late Antiquity. > [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Could someone put this in English? Google Translate just returns gibberish. “I hate Muslims” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=41) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=43)