# The Fallen Blogger and the Spectre of Secularism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827 "2015-02-28T03:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/901 "2015-05-25T20:57:42Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > It is a bastardization of an indelible American icon of bravery and sacrifice. You should love [http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/HTimages\_a/A02z\_014\_gay-flag.jpg](http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/HTimages_a/A02z_014_gay-flag.jpg) then.😃 ---
**Author:** ![tooldtocare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e19adc/32.png) [@tooldtocare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tooldtocare)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/902 "2015-05-25T21:08:57Z")
I posted the above hoping someone will post some good articles illustrating the exact opposite, the “good” side,.,., carrying & loving side I’m all ears, go for it- (:- ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/903 "2015-05-25T21:12:54Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > I believe I’m forbidden from discussing that topic. > > A man was pulled out of a mob trying to burn him alive yesterday in the latest example of fake Quran-burning extortion in Pakistan: [Alleged Quran Desecration Sparks Muslim-Christian Violence In Lahore, Pakistan | IBTimes](http://www.ibtimes.com/alleged-quran-desecration-sparks-muslim-christian-violence-lahore-pakistan-1936333) I think one of the things you’ve been told not to do is to accuse other posters on this board of wanting to murder you, whether or not there is evidence of such a threat (which I think most would agree was severely lacking in this case). But that’s not what’s being discussed here anyway. Your link has nothing whatsoever to do with the current discussion either, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/904 "2015-05-25T21:14:57Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Huh? > > When did anyone refer to the movie American Sniper? > > May I ask where you went to school, because if you went to private school your parents should demand a refund, but if you went to public school, I’d like my tax money back. You should read the thread. One of the issues on which the Islamophiles have been failing to use words correctly is the constant use of government institutions (public universities) to ban the showing of a movie they don’t like (American Sniper). The difference between lobbying the government to forbid/punish speech, and lobbying a private store to decide to stop carrying something, is all the difference in the world for the free speech angle. But to the modern progressive’s “everything is either forbidden or mandatory” orientation, it’s hard to get concepts like “I object to this T-shirt but I don’t wish to see its creators imprisoned” or “I uphold the right to make movies even if those movies are stupid or racist” through. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/905 "2015-05-25T21:16:02Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Your link has nothing whatsoever to do with the current discussion either, by the way. Let me guess – this instance of Islamic violence has nothing to do with a thread about Islamic violence because Islam is a religion of peace, therefore anyone committing violence is not a Real Muslim? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/906 "2015-05-25T21:17:12Z")
The derangement syndrome is quite funny. Some silly left graduate students failures (among the many) is erected into ‘lobbying…’ He must be a always frightened rabbit this one. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/907 "2015-05-25T21:56:28Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > You should read the thread. One of the issues on which the Islamophiles have been failing to use words correctly is the constant use of government institutions (public universities) to ban the showing of a movie they don’t like (American Sniper). The difference between lobbying the government to forbid/punish speech, and lobbying a private store to decide to stop carrying something, is all the difference in the world for the free speech angle. But to the modern progressive’s “everything is either forbidden or mandatory” orientation, it’s hard to get concepts like “I object to this T-shirt but I don’t wish to see its creators imprisoned” or “I uphold the right to make movies even if those movies are stupid or racist” through. Nice try. Your post seemed to be referencing Kobal’s post #885 which had no mention of American Sniper. In fact in this 19 page abortion of a thread, it’s been quite awhile before anyone mentioned American Sniper. Perhaps you could help explain why you seem so obsessed with Islam. Did you get publicly humiliated by a Muslim once? Did a girl or guy you wanted to hook up with turn you down for a Muslim? Something else? ---
**Author:** ![tooldtocare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e19adc/32.png) [@tooldtocare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tooldtocare)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/908 "2015-05-25T21:58:01Z")
> [@Is criticizing Islam allowed in The BBQ Pit?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-criticizing-islam-allowed-in-the-bbq-pit/720536/25): > > Muslim or Christian saint? Talk about saints The truth is NOT being told in the US press…,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., WHY -? This forum speaks of Jewish Theology for Christians but seems to leave out the facts on the ground The report noted: “Attacks by extremist Israeli settlers against Palestinian residents, property, and places of worship in the West Bank continued and were and Shabtai Shavit, accused the Netanyahu government of not being interested in stopping hate crimes against Palestinians. .,.,.,…,.,. Netanyahu wasn’t really interested in stopping the perpetrators .,…largely unprosecuted according to UN and NGO sources.”\* On May 7, (2012) t_he Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, Fouad Twal, the Vatican’s representative in the Holy Land, released a statement condemning a surge in hate crimes against Christian holy sites ahead of Pope Francis’ visit to Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories later in the month, and calling on the Israeli government to do more to protect Christians and their property. Lamenting that the “wave of fanaticism and intimidation against Christians continues,” the Patriarch blamed the Israeli government for the lack of effort that Israeli police have put into bringing the perpetrators of hate crimes against Palestinians to justice, referring to a “lack of responsiveness from the political sector.”_ \*Four days later, on May 11, Patriarch Twal again questioned the Israeli government’s commitment to stopping anti-Christian attacks, .,., \* \*In occupied East Jerusalem, Christian clergy face harassment from ultra-Orthodox Jews in the Old City. In November 2011, Haaretz newspaper reported that ultra-Orthodox Jews were cursing and spitting at Christian \* \*clergy in the streets of the Old City “as a matter of routine.” The chief secretary of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate explained: “It happens a lot. You walk down the street and suddenly they spit at you for no reason.” \* _A student at the city’s Armenian Seminary complained that he was subjected to insults and spitting from ultra-Orthodox men on a daily basis, stating: “When I see an ultra-Orthodox man coming toward me in the street, I always ask myself if he will spit at me.” According to a separate Haaretzarticle published in February 2012, spitting incidents were so prevalent that some priests had stopped visiting certain parts of the Old City._ [http://tinyurl.com/ooc4oou](http://tinyurl.com/ooc4oou) Note: It is not Muslim’s spitting on Christians, its ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/909 "2015-05-25T22:18:57Z")
> [@tooldtocare](#): > > Talk about saints > > The truth is NOT being told in the US press…,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,., WHY -? > > This forum speaks of Jewish Theology for Christians but seems to leave out the facts on the ground The report noted: “Attacks by extremist Israeli settlers against Palestinian residents, property, and places of worship in the West Bank continued and were and Shabtai Shavit, accused the Netanyahu government of not being interested in stopping hate crimes against Palestinians. .,.,.,…,.,. Netanyahu wasn’t really interested in stopping the perpetrators .,…largely unprosecuted according to UN and NGO sources.”\* > > On May 7, (2012) t_he Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, Fouad Twal, the Vatican’s representative in the Holy Land, released a statement condemning a surge in hate crimes against Christian holy sites ahead of Pope Francis’ visit to Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories later in the month, and calling on the Israeli government to do more to protect Christians and their property. Lamenting that the “wave of fanaticism and intimidation against Christians continues,” the Patriarch blamed the Israeli government for the lack of effort that Israeli police have put into bringing the perpetrators of hate crimes against Palestinians to justice, referring to a “lack of responsiveness from the political sector.”_ > > \*Four days later, on May 11, Patriarch Twal again questioned the Israeli government’s commitment to stopping anti-Christian attacks, .,., > \* > \*In occupied East Jerusalem, Christian clergy face harassment from ultra-Orthodox Jews in the Old City. In November 2011, Haaretz newspaper reported that ultra-Orthodox Jews were cursing and spitting at Christian \* > > \*clergy in the streets of the Old City “as a matter of routine.” The chief secretary of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate explained: “It happens a lot. You walk down the street and suddenly they spit at you for no reason.” \* > > _A student at the city’s Armenian Seminary complained that he was subjected to insults and spitting from ultra-Orthodox men on a daily basis, stating: “When I see an ultra-Orthodox man coming toward me in the street, I always ask myself if he will spit at me.” According to a separate Haaretzarticle published in February 2012, spitting incidents were so prevalent that some priests had stopped visiting certain parts of the Old City._ > [http://tinyurl.com/ooc4oou](http://tinyurl.com/ooc4oou) > > Note: It is not Muslim’s spitting on Christians, its What does this have to do with the thread we’re discussing here? If you’d like to start a discussion of how evil Israel is, how the US government is controlled by Zionists, how 911 was an inside job, or something similar, you can always start a thread on GD? ---
**Author:** ![tooldtocare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e19adc/32.png) [@tooldtocare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tooldtocare)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/910 "2015-05-25T22:44:14Z")
The Fallen Blogger and the Spectre of Secularism I’m calling a time out. I don’t know what the word “Secularism" means. \*If you’d like to start a discussion of how evil Israel is,.,.,.,…, “Countries” are not “evil” my friend. Countries are defined by their geographic boundaries. The term “evil” does not belong in that context, in my view how the US government is controlled by Zionists, how 911 was an inside job, or something similar, you can always start a thread on GD?\* Wow, interesting topics. I haven’t seen these titles before. If I google one of the above will I get any hits-? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/911 "2015-05-25T22:50:39Z")
> [@tooldtocare](#): > > Wow, interesting topics. I haven’t seen these titles before. If I google one of the above will I get any hits-? I have no idea how many hits you’d get, but you’ve posted before in support of such positions so it occurred to me that they might be related to your rather incoherent posts. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/912 "2015-05-25T23:00:16Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What does this have to do with the thread we’re discussing here? > > If you’d like to start a discussion of how evil Israel is, how the US government is controlled by Zionists, how 911 was an inside job, or something similar, you can always start a thread on GD? [Moderator Note] I moved both of his posts above from a thread in ATMB concerning this thread because they weren’t appropriate for that forum. Since they were prompted by this thread, I figured it was better to move them here than to a new thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/913 "2015-05-25T23:06:48Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > [Moderator Note] > > I moved both of his posts above from a thread in ATMB concerning this thread because they weren’t appropriate for that forum. Since they were prompted by this thread, I figured it was better to move them here than to a new thread. Ah, I see. I’ll agree this thread was probably better than any other. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/914 "2015-05-25T23:14:07Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Let me guess – this instance of Islamic violence has nothing to do with a thread about Islamic violence because Islam is a religion of peace, therefore anyone committing violence is not a Real Muslim? Bad guess; please try again. Hint: there is nothing in the link about whether the alleged Koran-burning guy was wearing an offensive T-shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/915 "2015-05-26T00:24:01Z")
> [@tooldtocare](#): > > Ever been spit upon-? Yes. It was a Christian who did it. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/916 "2015-05-26T01:06:25Z")
Holy Motherfucking Shit!! I was under the mistaken impression that this thread couldn’t get any fucking stupider! That’ll teach me to think! Anyway, if Haberdash and Stringbean represent one option for the future, then I welcome our new Muslim overlords!!! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/917 "2015-05-26T01:21:19Z")
Story off Facebook about a random encounter between a Muslim and a non-Muslim (spoiler added for effect): > [@some person on Facebook](#): > > So my mom is shopping in a supermarket, wearing a full hijab and jilbab (commonly misnamed as a burka) and the whole time she is there, this kid is staring at her. Won’t stop staring. Just looking with wide-eyed shock. The lil feller isn’t any older than four. She doesn’t think much of it, she is used to far worse than just a few stares. > > Until the very end when the kid and his mom are behind her in the checkout, and he leans up and whispers loudly: > > “I LOVE YOU BATMAN.” ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/918 "2015-05-26T20:26:34Z")
The latest in the annals of progressive victim-blaming for Muslims’ inability to control themslves is pre-emptive blaming for actions that haven’t happened yet: [http://www.salon.com/2015/05/26/pam\_geller’s\_next\_big\_idea\_exposing\_innocent\_washington\_dc\_commuters\_to\_risk\_of\_attack\_just\_to\_make\_a\_point/](http://www.salon.com/2015/05/26/pam_geller%E2%80%99s_next_big_idea_exposing_innocent_washington_dc_commuters_to_risk_of_attack_just_to_make_a_point/) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/919 "2015-05-26T22:44:07Z")
I’d ask why you were “pre-emptively” excusing a troll for her actions but the answer is already evident. > [@Salon article](#): > > **After noting that to refuse the ad campaign would be tantamount to enacting Shariah law on American soil** , Geller added that “[d]rawing Muhammad is not illegal under American law, but only under Islamic law. Another idiot who thinks they have a right to be an asshole in someone else’s private medium. And who doesn’t have the slightest clue what “Shariah law” is. But hey, let’s make this an experiment - let’s put up offensive images of Mohammed, Christ, Buddha and, I dunno, L Ron Hubbard and see which causes the most kerfuffle. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/920 "2015-05-26T22:52:01Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Whereas Muhammad is just this guy and cartoons showing him fucking a pig’s head are fine, right ? From the perspective of an individual actor’s right to portray it without censure from the government or threat of hacking-to-death, yes. > [@Kobal2](#): > > Nothing. It’s just a random, funny shirt. It’s not even insulting or disparaging of the photo, or of veterans, or of _anything_. That’s what is priceless about this story. In your opinion it’s not offensive. Cool. In the opinion of others, it is offensive. That’s cool, too. Where are the violent reprisals? Your example exemplifies the difference between the Western world and the more fundamentalist Islamic world. You didn’t prove anything, other than we protest with words and money instead of mobs and machetes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=47)