# The Fallen Blogger and the Spectre of Secularism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827 "2015-02-28T03:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/921 "2015-05-26T22:53:33Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You should love [http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/HTimages\_a/A02z\_014\_gay-flag.jpg](http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/HTimages_a/A02z_014_gay-flag.jpg) then.😃 Lol…this one is much better. It does present a poignant theme at least. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/922 "2015-05-27T01:03:15Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Another idiot who thinks they have a right to be an asshole in someone else’s private medium. Ads on Metrobuses and shelters are purchased from the [Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority](http://www.wmata.com/business/advertising_with_metro.cfm), a government agency. Thus, they are not anyone’s “private medium” and there may be no viewpoint-based discrimination on what ads to accept. I’m not at all surprised to find out that the anti-speech Islamophiles don’t have a clue about this basic fact. > [@](#): > > And who doesn’t have the slightest clue what “Shariah law” is. Every major Sharia school views depicting Muhammad as idolatry, and every major Sharia school unequivocally believes that the penalty for idolatry is death. The only leeway is the historical fact that this was not always so, which is small consolation to those murdered over it today. > [@](#): > > But hey, let’s make this an experiment - let’s put up offensive images of Mohammed, Christ, Buddha and, I dunno, L Ron Hubbard and see which causes the most kerfuffle. How many people died in the Piss Christ riots, again? ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/923 "2015-05-27T01:07:59Z")
In Algeria, imams are endorsing a campaign called “Be A Man,” which urges men not to let their wives or daughters leave the house with their face showing: [http://bigbrowser.blog.lemonde.fr/2015/05/25/prouver-sa-virilite-en-voilant-sa-femme/](http://bigbrowser.blog.lemonde.fr/2015/05/25/prouver-sa-virilite-en-voilant-sa-femme/) ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/924 "2015-05-27T01:56:43Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > By the way, since Teju Cole is so concerned about Badawi and Roy, I look forward to him using any one of his six different magazine columns to write about them. I’m sure it will happen any day now. > [@Haberdash](#): > > Teju Cole is [happy to boast](happy to boast) that he is “a regular contributor to the New Yorker, the New York Times, the Atlantic, Granta, and the New Inquiry.” He also writes for the Guardian as of fairly recently, though perhaps this relationship ended before he updated his website. > > In the event that he devotes any one of his 5 or 6 columns to Roy, or ever mentions him again at all, I will update the thread. It has now been 72 days since Avijit Roy was murdered by Muslims for leaving Islam. Teju Cole had a new column published on Sunday. Strangely, it did not mention Avijit Roy, Raif Badawi, Islam, or free speech. > **[Death in the Browser Tab (Published 2015)](https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/24/magazine/death-in-the-browser-tab.html)** > > Footage of death brings the event uncannily close, but this can be both too much and not enough. But I’m sure some people will continue to believe that Teju Cole is bursting at the seams to honor those people and discuss those issues. It’s easier for them. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/925 "2015-05-27T04:09:05Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Every major Sharia school What you know about every major “Sharia school” wouldn’t even fill a thimble. Man, I go on vacation for a week and this thread turns even stupider than it was before I left, thanks to you and your Partners in Dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/926 "2015-05-27T04:43:40Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > How many people died in the Piss Christ riots, again? And how many died in the \*American Sniper \*riots spreading across campuses like wildfire ? (BTW, 18 people were seriously injured when _The Last Temptation of Christ_ aired in Paris and got firebombed by Christian activists. It’s a genuine miracle (ironically) nobody died. So there’s that.) ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/927 "2015-05-27T05:50:56Z")
Hell, America invaded Iraq, supported by many evangelicals with a casual disregard for the lives of Muslim foreigners. 100,000 non-combatants were killed, according to some estimates. As it was happening, personally, I felt that many religious folks around me didn’t mind the collateral damage at all. Like it was a feature and not a bug. I don’t know if this lowest common denominator cultural equivalency argument really pans out or not. Muslim countries do seem to breed more terrorists, but OTOH you gotta admit that atrocities are simply carried out in a different manner by wealthy, powerful countries like the US. Has any Muslim country ever invaded Vietnam? Huh? Talk about getting out the machete over a disagreement in political philosophy. Who is really worse? Aren’t people more alike than different, with circumstances explaining the bulk of the differences? I’m not sure the US-THEM argument I see in this thread pans out either. But of course cartoonists and bloggers don’t deserve to die- hope nobody takes these comments as some kind of apology for terrorists and murderers. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/928 "2015-05-27T05:58:22Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > By the way, since Teju Cole is so concerned about Badawi and Roy, I look forward to him using any one of his six different magazine columns to write about them. There is no rational reason for Teju Cole or anybody else to pay any attention to your completely made-up arbitrary “rule” that Cole has to devote a magazine column to every topic that he’s concerned about. > [@Haberdash](#): > > Teju Cole had a new column published on Sunday. Strangely, it did not mention Avijit Roy, Raif Badawi, Islam, or free speech. Actually, the column **does** mention the “ISIS beheading videos” as an example of “clips of deadly violence” visually recording “that quantum of moral disregard out of which one person kills another”. If, say, Sam Harris or Geert Wilders or somebody else you like had happened to make such a passing allusion to ISIS murder videos in the context of discussing a related but different topic, you would have been enthusiastically praising it as an inspiring testimonial to their concern about brutal Islamist-terrorist repression. [QUOTE=Haberdash] But I’m sure some people will continue to believe that Teju Cole is bursting at the seams to honor those people and discuss those issues. [/QUOTE] Why would anybody believe such an exaggeratedly hyperbolic claim? No rational person imagines that sincerely repudiating an atrocity requires the repudiator to be “bursting at the seams” to discuss the atrocity. For example, you, **Haberdash** , have AFAICT remained totally silent on the deplorable corruption and mismanagement impeding Nepal earthquake relief efforts. But nobody here is jumping to the conclusion that your obvious failure to be “bursting at the seams” to complain about it must mean you’re a disgusting callous racist pig who doesn’t give a shit about the suffering of innocent Nepalis. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/929 "2015-05-27T06:02:55Z")
For those who, like Kimtsu, have not been paying attention, the claim vociferously made earlier in the thread was that the reason Teju Cole led a boycott of the PEN award to Charlie Hebdo was not because he is a Sharia-compliant, Islam-apologist coward who believed the victims deserved what they got for the blasphemy of portraying Muhammad (RP), despite Cole writing a column saying as much, but because he thought the award was more deserved by Raif Badawi or Avijit Roy. I find it unlikely that someone who is so strident in his belief that Raif Badawi and Avijit Roy deserve to be lauded would let 72 days go by without using the major media resources at his disposal to pen an encomium to one or the other. The Islamophiles, being bullish on the bridge-buying market, think that this makes perfect sense. If my position was that “the reason we should have free speech is because we can use it to talk about Nepal,” repeated over and over again, then you would have a point in your comparison. Since it isn’t, you just have the usual willful obtuseness of the people who go on a forum for “fighting ignorance” to talk about how the ridiculous, barbaric belief system known as Islam must never be questioned. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/930 "2015-05-27T06:25:09Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > For those who, like Kimtsu, have not been paying attention, the claim vociferously made earlier in the thread was that the reason Teju Cole led [_sic_] a boycott of the PEN award to Charlie Hebdo was […] because he thought the award was more deserved by Raif Badawi or Avijit Roy. For those who, like **Haberdash** , are incapable of accurately remembering or looking up what was actually said earlier in the thread (and incidentally of spelling other posters’ usernames correctly), allow me to note that I was the one who [pointed out Teju Cole’s public expression of support for Badawi and Roy in the first place](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18324491&postcount=451): > [@](#): > > “I would rather honor [Saudi writer imprisoned and flogged on state charges of blasphemy and apostasy] Raif Badawi, [freethinker activist assassinated by Bangladeshi Islamist radicals] Avijit Roy, Edward Snowden, or Chelsea Manning, who have also paid steeply for their courage, but whose ideals are much more progressive than Charlie’s.” Despite **Haberdash** ’s constant melodramatic whining that Teju Cole is somehow “not doing enough” to stand up for victims like Badawi and Roy, my earlier remark to him in that post still holds true: > [@](#): > > Teju Cole as an internationally known writer and public figure has been way more visible and courageous about publicly disavowing and condemning Islamist violence and repression of freedom than anonymous little shitstains like you ever have. > [@Haberdash](#): > > talk about how […] Islam must never be questioned. Desperately punching your poor old strawman again, I see. AFAICT, there’s never been anybody even momentarily appearing in this thread who’s actually asserted anything even distantly approaching a claim that “Islam must never be questioned”. In fact, plenty of us have been not only “questioning” but roundly condemning particular aspects of extremist Islamist beliefs and theocratic politics right from the get-go. What has your little hateboner all depressed is not any actual attempt to suppress free speech or honest criticism of oppression and violence, but the fact that we’re not afraid to candidly call you out on your bigotry and malevolence when you try to smear _all_ Muslims or Islam _in general_ with the violent-extremism broad brush. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/931 "2015-05-27T08:07:08Z")
Paying attention… amusing. I think I conclude in fact the old sharia rule must apply to this haberdash and he be treated accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/932 "2015-05-27T09:28:27Z")
That divisive cancer that is Islam seems to have plagued regions where one least expects for it to have a presence ([Philippines](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_insurgency_in_the_Philippines) [Thailand](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thailand_insurgency) or [China](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Turkestan_independence_movement)). ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/933 "2015-05-27T09:31:22Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > But of course cartoonists and bloggers don’t deserve to die- hope nobody takes these comments as some kind of apology for terrorists and murderers. Well, **Haberdash** will, of course, as he does any statement that does not enthusiastically endorse his bigotry. **truthSeeker2** as well, probably. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/934 "2015-05-27T09:46:58Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Well, **Haberdash** will, of course, as he does any statement that does not enthusiastically endorse his bigotry. **truthSeeker2** as well, probably. Open the links in above post. Islam is causing problems even where one least expects. (I am not even mentioning attacks of last couple of days in Kashmir, Kabul or the middle east) Intolerance and divisiveness are built into Islam when all other religions and sects have largely reconciled in 21st century world. Maybe Islam will reconcile later on, but right now, it is a cancer. we must accept this. there is no bigotry in accepting this. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/935 "2015-05-27T10:54:56Z")
I opened you guys’ links earlier. I went to the trouble to disprove the inaccurate summary of one, and then decided it wasn’t worth the effort for the rest. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/936 "2015-05-27T13:06:10Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > That divisive cancer that is Islam seems to have plagued regions where one least expects for it to have a presence ([Philippines](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_insurgency_in_the_Philippines) [Thailand](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thailand_insurgency) or [China](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Turkestan_independence_movement)). Three independence movements, two of which are against oppressive dictatorial regimes and one of which started after a massacre of Muslims by government troops? Are you sure you got the right links? Anyway, [meanwhile in Burma…](http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/05/24/world-view-burma-myanmar-approves-birth-control-law-targeting-rohingya-muslims/) > [@](#): > > President Thein Sein of Myanmar (Burma) has signed into law the Population Control Health Care Bill, to require mothers to have their children at least three years apart. Nominally, the purpose of the bill is to “protect women’s health,” but opponents say that it is designed to target Rohingya Muslims. > > […] > > Rohingya Muslim migrants have lived peacefully in Myanmar (Burma) for generations, but are now being slaughtered and driven from their homes by Buddhists led by Buddhist monk Ashin Wirathu. Some 140,000 have been herded into dirty apartheid-like camps. Thousands of Rohingya have fled Burma. An estimated 2000 Rohingya migrants are have been trapped for over 40 days in crowded boats off the coast in the Bay of Bengal. Thousands more are in boats further south in the Andaman Sea, where they have been trying to reach shore in Thailand, Indonesia or Malaysia. > > […] > > Now Burma’s government is again moving away from reforms (human rights) and back in the direction of repression (stability) with the new Population Control law. The parliament is considering additional bills relating to monogamy, religious conversion and interfaith marriage. These laws are also being demanded by hardline Buddhists with an anti-Muslim agenda. I eagerly await your condemnation of Buddhism as a “cancer”. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/937 "2015-05-27T13:22:06Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Open the links in above post. Islam is causing problems even where one least expects. According to your own links, the Moro Rebellion has roots that go back 400 years, and the others didn’t exactly spring up yesterday either. Saying that these well-known insurgencies, which have existed for decades, are occurring in locations where “one least expects”, stretches the truth just a bit, does it not? It’s also pretty clear that all three of these are mainly ethnically-based rebellions and that if the actors on one side weren’t muslim, they’d likely still be rebelling. Lastly, you seem to be claiming that these rather splintered groups, making up a small percentage of all muslims, and which clearly have agendas that are considerably more imvolved than simply imposing Islam in a given area, somehow proves that all muslims are part of this ‘cancer’ that you keep banging on about. Sorry, you simply haven’t proven your case to anyone’s satisfaction. You’re going to have to do better. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/938 "2015-05-27T13:41:53Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > According to your own links, the Moro Rebellion has roots that go back 400 years, and the others didn’t exactly spring up yesterday either. Saying that these well-known insurgencies, which have existed for decades, are occurring in locations where “one least expects”, stretches the truth just a bit, does it not? It’s also pretty clear that all three of these are mainly ethnically-based rebellions and that\*\* if the actors on one side weren’t muslim, they’d likely still be rebelling.\*\* I don’t think so. Islam doesn’t promote integration or assimilation. Hate and intolerance are an integral part of Islam. Will give you more instances - - India was divided because of the Arabic religion. Vast majority of Muslims of south asia have Hindu forefathers. - Kashmir today is the only Muslim majority state in India and has a separatist movement ongoing. (3 soldiers and 1 civilian killed in last 2 days, and this is very common throughout the year. Over 100k Hindus and Sikhs have been chased out of Kashmir valley in 1990’s) - Several hundreds of Muslim-Hindu communal incidents in India every year to this date. - Vast majority of killings in the name of religion have been Islam related. Al Qaeda, Taliban, Isis, Boko Haram, Al Shabaab, Lashkar-e-Toiba etc are Islamic terror organizations. - Intolerance levels on average are the greatest in Muslims among all religious groups - blasphemy(Bangladesh bloggers, French cartoonists etc), apostasy etc. > [@](#): > > Lastly, you seem to be claiming that these rather splintered groups, making up a small percentage of all muslims, and which clearly have agendas that are considerably more imvolved than simply imposing Islam in a given area, somehow proves that all muslims are part of this ‘cancer’ that you keep banging on about. Sorry, you simply haven’t proven your case to anyone’s satisfaction. You’re going to have to do better. Muslims happen to be born into Islam. They are like any other human beings. If any injustice happens to a Muslim or a Non-Muslim, my actions or feelings against that is going to be the same, irrespective of religion. Its the Islam which is a cancer. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/939 "2015-05-27T13:56:04Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Islam doesn’t promote integration or assimilation. Hate and intolerance are an integral part of Islam. The above seems to be a bit of IMAX-level projection on your part, considering your Hindu-supremacist sympathies. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/940 "2015-05-27T14:16:11Z")
The treatment of the Rohingya in Burma is indeed a stain on Buddhism and gives the lie to the notion of that particular religion being any better than the rest. It’s also interesting, though, that the leader of a Muslim country which has become increasingly hardline over the past several years, including tacitly endorsing the blogger murders which started this thread, has refused to take in these Muslim refugees and has in fact denounced them in the media: > **[Bangladesh PM Sheikh Hasina slams starving migrants as 'mentally sick'](https://www.smh.com.au/world/bangladesh-pm-sheikh-hasina-slams-starving-migrants-as-mentally-sick-20150525-gh8ua0.html)** > > "They are tainting the image of the country along with pushing their life into danger." It’s almost as if “Muslim solidarity” and “Muslim concern for human rights” only exist when they can be used as pretexts to murder someone and have no other function. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=48)