# The Fallen Blogger and the Spectre of Secularism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827 "2015-02-28T03:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/81 "2015-03-06T05:05:38Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > kneejerk PC-ers Aaaaaand _scene_! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/82 "2015-03-06T05:31:20Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Atheist bloggers aren’t getting murdered in the US. Abortion providers are occasionally killed for their actions, not beliefs. Your feeble attempt at a false dichotomy doesn’t come within a country mile of making the case that Avijit Roy was not in fact murdered for his actions. Roy was not just an atheist in his private life but a widely-known public intellectual, an activist and anti-censorship advocate who wrote articles and books on controversial aspects of politics and religion. All of which actions are perfectly legal, just like the actions of the licensed medical professionals who provide abortions. But in both cases, sometimes fanatics get mad enough about other people’s legal actions to kill in retaliation for them. Trying to pretend that maintaining an active career of publicly pursuing controversial legal activities in accordance with one’s own principles is a matter of “action” for abortion providers but merely “belief” for atheists is one of the dumbest arguments I’ve ever encountered. (And, of course, that’s not even taking into account the moral bankruptcy of your unpleasant implication that it somehow counts as less heinous to brutally murder a law-abiding person for their lawful activities than for their personal beliefs.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/83 "2015-03-06T05:34:22Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > you’re just afraid of nuance “Nuance” is pretty much the last thing anybody would have to fear from your posts. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/84 "2015-03-06T05:40:47Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Abortion providers are occasionally killed for their actions, not beliefs. And how does that make it any better? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/85 "2015-03-06T05:42:50Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > . . . kneejerk PC-ers . . . “Short of walking into a conversation, sandblasting the brick and installing track lighting, there is no surer way to announce one is from the 1980s than to mount an assault on ‘political correctness,’ the contemporary phrase for which is ‘not being a jackass.’” [—Tabatha Southey](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Political_correctness) ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/86 "2015-03-06T08:57:04Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Your feeble attempt at a false dichotomy doesn’t come within a country mile of making the case that Avijit Roy was not in fact murdered for his actions. … > (And, of course, that’s not even taking into account the moral bankruptcy of your unpleasant implication that it somehow counts as less heinous to brutally murder a law-abiding person for their lawful activities than for their personal beliefs.) It is indeed very strange ‘argument’ to make. It insults Roy. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/87 "2015-03-06T09:26:05Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > @Kimstu > you miss the point bro. Religion of peace is the cancer for 21st century. 99% of extremists happen to be followers. I think we can see your [claims](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18038255&postcount=252)of brotherly feeling and excuses about using the Anglophone slur Paki were just excuses. > [@Cabin\_Fever](#): > > Whew. > I used to have a girl-friend like you. I would say “Thank You” to a cup of coffee in the morning while waking up and then get hit verbally by all of the perceived injustices in the world. It is strange, how is it that women in a political or similar discussion do not usually write “I used to have a boyfriend like you” but so many men think this sort of comment is acceptable. Even here which likes to criticize my culture about machisme. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > This was directed at Ramira, but I’ll give it a shot. Then he can refute me if he wishes. > > I say there are 2 prongs. > > 1. In Egypt, free expression was repressed for decades. An exception was made for espousing devout views in the mosque. That mentality metastasized into the Muslim Brotherhood. Yes, I know that some of the head honcho Imans had the approval of the state. > > 2. The second prong involves the deal the House of Saud made with the hardline Islamicists. Support us and we’ll support you. They did. And so their zeal was directed outwards, outside of Saudi Arabia. > > Of course for both aspects could only work in fertile ground, i.e. dysfunctional societies. But all 3rd world countries are dysfunctional (just look at the corruption stats for an example). That there are people amenable to an ideology of violence is unsurprising. the existence of radicalism and the existence of the political islam, which are not the same thing, these are complicated issues. They will exist no matter I think of conditions. there are the similar fringes in all modern societies. what I think is the real question is why is this the serious problem of today. There I have already pointed to a factor, that is the bad performance of the ostensible secular states and the secularist governments in the post-colonization, in the arab region. They were and are mostly the authoritarian governments, often heavily subsidized by one side or the other of the cold war, and performed badly on most accounts. It is important to recall and something that ignorants like the op ignore, thus getting their entire understanding of the history wrong. false premises to false conclusions there is also the usage by some of these governments of playing the Islamist radical movements in the 1970s and 1980s when they seemed small against the then more powerful - then - communist movements, some governments thinking the small movements were less threat and too fringe. this is more complicated than what is evoked by **Measure** , for merely not having press freedom did not promote inside of mosques the Ikhouan or the radicals. Nor can you say that it was just the Saudi money supporting the extreme Salafist vision. This only has worked and found roots because of the wider frustration. Secular rule performed badly in the 1970-2000 period in most arab countries, so some people dismiss it entirely. But you can see with the Tunisia that under stable circumstances, without the great manipulation like Egypt and with compromise, both the secularist and the centrist islamist parties can achieve a common project - and the overwhelming mass of the voters of this arab islamic country rejected the takfiri salafiste vision. But europe already taught balanced and liberal democracy is a plant that takes time to put down its roots, and does not do well in its young stages in the face of crisis. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/88 "2015-03-06T21:12:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And how does that make it any better? At least pro-lifers are stopping what they believe to be murder. And it is murder, in some small number of cases, like with that Dr. Kermit who “ensured fetal demise” with scissors to the cervical spine. Ugh. I’m certainly no pro-lifer, but at some point, say, 25 weeks or so, abortion should be flat-out illegal, unless it’s to save the mother’s or fetus’s life. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/89 "2015-03-06T23:27:50Z")
Sorry, wrong thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/90 "2015-03-06T23:48:06Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > At least pro-lifers are stopping what they believe to be murder. Ah what a wonderful standard… > [@](#): > > And it is murder, in some small number of cases, like with that Dr. Kermit who “ensured fetal demise” with scissors to the cervical spine. Ugh. and I think we see a certain hidden agenda, caché So this poster is ready to make excuses for terror actions where he believes that oh well at there is a rationale he justifies… How typical, this is the side expression of the banality of evil ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/91 "2015-03-07T00:40:41Z")
I am actually consistently pro-life, and vote that way. It’s sad to see people damaging their knee joints so much. Why not work your brain instead of your knee sometimes? LOL ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/92 "2015-03-07T03:11:22Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > A member of a society where you don’t get randomly murdered for being an atheist? I can report that I was once the victim of what probably counts as a hate crime. A group of evangelical buddies started taunting me one evening for being a ‘liberal’. I asked them what that meant and what I had done to deserve the label- basically I was demanding to know what I was being accused of. These evangelicals were so fucking stupid they couldn’t answer the question, and instead went apeshit and attacked me in what I consider a potentially fatal way. I had to get a lot of stitches on my head, and I was abandoned to get help on my own. There was a large evangelical population in the place, so maybe that is why nobody was ever held accountable for the attack, I don’t know for sure. But personally, since this country is full of evangelicals and not especially populated by Muslims, I consider evangelicals to be a far greater threat. Not primarily as a physical threat, but mainly for the stupid direction they want to take government policy. But that is getting off topic… ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2015, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/93 "2015-03-07T04:13:45Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > If this is not to be ignored, then it is necessary to note that it is quite distorting to imply the blogger was an unconnected American married to a Muslim, when in fact he was a Bangledeshi born person - of Muslim heritage - who became an American citizen and is the son of a well known Bangladesh secularist activist. Since the OP is from the region, this is hard to consider as an accident and seems deliberate and inflamatory (like some past references to “pakis”). Keep in mind that Truthseeker refers to Muslims as “Pakis” and doing so was determined to not be an example of “hate speech” or even worthy of a mod note. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/94 "2015-03-31T04:17:23Z")
Islamists hack another blogger to death in Bangladesh > **[Islamists hack another blogger to death in Bangladesh](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/03/30/islamists-hack-another-blogger-to-death-in-bangladesh/)** > > The incident comes just a month after a prominent Bangladeshi American writer was killed in a similar assault. RoP (religion of peace), the cancer of 21st century, strikes again. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/95 "2015-03-31T05:54:01Z")
^ > [@](#): > > Three assailants cornered Washiqur Rahman, a 27-year-old Bangladeshi blogger, outside his Dhaka home on Monday and hacked him to death with meat cleavers. Police said the attackers rained their blows on Rahman’s head, “distorting” his face. : : > [@](#): > > Rafida Ahmed, the injured wife of the slain blogger Roy, recently accused elements of the local police of standing by idly while her husband was butchered. > > “While Avijit and I were being ruthlessly attacked, the local police stood close by and did not act,” Ahmed told Reuters in mid-March. She demanded an end to “a legal culture of impunity, where writers can be killed without the killers being brought to trial.” ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/96 "2015-03-31T08:08:37Z")
Ah, another perfect opportunity to reflect on the injustice of the Crusades. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/97 "2015-03-31T12:14:39Z")
Traditionally and historically, the people of Bengal—including Hindus and Muslims, East Bengalis and West Bengalis, Bengalis of India and Bengalis of Bangladesh—were Bengalis first and whatever else second. Traditionally, Bengali Muslim women did not have to cover their heads or their faces—they dressed just like Bengali Hindu women. Ever since independence, the Saudis have been spreading their radical form of Islam throughout the Muslim world, radicalizing places like Bangladesh. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/98 "2015-03-31T12:49:35Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Traditionally and historically, the people of Bengal—including Hindus and Muslims, East Bengalis and West Bengalis, Bengalis of India and Bengalis of Bangladesh—were Bengalis first and whatever else second. > > Traditionally, Bengali Muslim women did not have to cover their heads or their faces—they dressed just like Bengali Hindu women. Ever since independence, the Saudis have been spreading their radical form of Islam throughout the Muslim world, radicalizing places like Bangladesh. Agree. Bangladesh is probably one of the more secular Muslim majority nations but looks like deteriorating. Partition did happen on communal lines though. > [@](#): > > To India it was breaking up of Pakistan, but to many Bangladeshis, everyone else was an outsider and the memory of the upper class Kolkata Hindu dominating East Bengalis, the peasant’s child, has never fully faded, and is often transmitted through generations. [http://www.dhakatribune.com/long-form/2014/dec/17/‘it’s-not-just-colonel-who-would-not-repent-just-about-everyone-else’](http://www.dhakatribune.com/long-form/2014/dec/17/%E2%80%98it%E2%80%99s-not-just-colonel-who-would-not-repent-just-about-everyone-else%E2%80%99) east Bengali muslim peasant’s view of the urban hindu was the money lender,zamindar. Many Muslims were not nationalists. There was mobilization on communal lines in the lead up to partition. there was the killings in Calcutta and noakhali after direct action day. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/99 "2015-03-31T14:25:37Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > this is more complicated than what is evoked by **Measure** , for merely not having press freedom did not promote inside of mosques the Ikhouan or the radicals. Nor can you say that it was just the Saudi money supporting the extreme Salafist vision. This only has worked and found roots because of the wider frustration. What is _Ikhouan_? Google is no help. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Keep in mind that Truthseeker refers to Muslims as “Pakis” and doing so was determined to not be an example of “hate speech” or even worthy of a mod note. We had [a thread about this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=658693), as you presumably recall. At the time I was upset and agreed with you but in hindsight I can’t get that het up about it when it’s only used as a derogatory term in one part of the world (a part where **truthseeker** isn’t.) Of course, he uses plenty of other inflammatory language about Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/100 "2015-03-31T14:50:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What is _Ikhouan_? Google is no help. > > We had [a thread about this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=658693), as you presumably recall. At the time I was upset and agreed with you but in hindsight I can’t get that het up about it when it’s only used as a derogatory term in one part of the world (a part where **truthseeker** isn’t.) Of course, he uses plenty of other inflammatory language about Muslims. Anytime if I may have generalized by mistake, I am deeply sorry abt that. Majority of Muslims may well be fine, but 99% of extremists also happen to be followers. Even the non-extremists followers are far far less tolerant _on average_ than kaffirs. In 21st century world, RoP is the symbol of terrorism, regressive mindset, riots, divisiveness, partition, gender inequality etc. No two ways about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=6)