# The Fallen Blogger and the Spectre of Secularism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827 "2015-02-28T03:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1081 "2015-05-28T19:25:46Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Cole **is** , in fact, a Sharia-compliant, Islam-apologist murder-justifier Well, if you translate him through the **Haberdash** Super-Seekrit Liberal Code, that is. But then you get a cool decoder ring! 🙂 > [@Haberdash](#): > > Why do you think it is that “what if an ‘Islamophobe’ murdered a pro-Muslim speaker” can only be discussed in the hypothetical? What do you mean, “only in the hypothetical”? [Here’s an example of Islamophobes murdering a Muslim who wasn’t even a “pro-Muslim speaker”](http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/techie-dies-after-attack-by-hindutva-group/article6082942.ece). Why did they murder him? Why, because they were incensed about some unflattering images: > [@](#): > > [Pune, Maharashtra, June 2014] A 24-year-old Muslim technology professional died of injuries after members of the radical right-wing outfit Hindu Rashtra Sena attacked him here on Monday night. > > The Pune police said Mohsin Shaikh from Solapur was beaten to death when he was on his way home after evening prayers. The incident is a fallout of communal tensions in the city after morphed derogatory photos of [17th-century Hindu] Maratha king Shivaji and [rightwing Hindu-communalist] Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray [1926-2012] were posted on Facebook. Oh yeah, but it’s only those awful backward Muslims who are provoked to violence and murder by insulting images. Yeah, sure. > [@Haberdash](#): > > The once in a generation exception Well, the only one you happen to have heard of until just now, that is. > [@Haberdash](#): > > there’s only one group whose vision of civil rights activism involves murdering people Hindu Shiv Sena says hi too. (Not to mention a bunch of other Hindutva groups.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1082 "2015-05-28T19:27:58Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > The once in a generation exception alluded to above, a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic who managed to blow up a bunch of white Norwegians before being imprisoned. And, somehow, no legion of leftists emerged to libel his victims and demand that his viewpoint be understood. No one led a boycott of ceremonies for the survivors. The major organs of progressive opinion did not run piece after piece about the gall of the victims who “punched down” and the need to reign in their “hate speech.” And that’s because none of the people Breivik killed were participating in hate speech. Which makes them distinctly different from the staff at Charlie Hebdo. Neither of which changes the essential and incontrovertible fact that not a single person in this thread, at any point, has argued that Charlie Hebdo should not have been allowed to publish their cartoons. That’s because, much like the ACLU that you are pretending to support, we realize that it’s possible to support someone’s freedom of speech without endorsing the content of that speech. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1083 "2015-05-28T19:28:07Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > \*I would consider it gauche to point out his character flaws while his blood was still being cleaned up, or while his murderer was still holding other people hostage in a police standoff, or in rebuttal to a claim that murdering people is bad, and would not do so. Cole did not observe these strictures with regards to the Charlie Hebdo victims. Ah, so he’s gauche. Gotcha. Charlie Hebdo was the soul of propriety. I recall lifted pinkies at teatime. > [@](#): > > \*I would support him for any and all awards, assuming his murder was due to something he wrote or another speech activity and not a random event. > > \*I would not boycott or attempt to block such an honor. Would you think it bigoted if your fellow Islamophobes did so? > [@](#): > > My question: Why do you think it is that “what if an ‘Islamophobe’ murdered a pro-Muslim speaker” can only be discussed in the hypothetical? What does this indicate about the fundamental issue of whether criticism of Islam may have some kind of point and not be mere “bigotry”? Well, one reason is that there are fewer Muslims in Western countries with microphones; Muslims in Western countries tend to be poor. One reason is that Muslims speakers are often religious leaders, since it is, y’know, a religion–and while we’re talking hypothetically about murders of Muslim speakers, [attacks on Muslims by Islamophobes](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/increase-anti-muslim-incidents-france-post-shooting-n290781), including arson, hate speech, and threats with guns. And one reason is that [we don’t need to talk hypothetically about the murder of a Muslim by an Islamophobe in France](http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/France-Muslim-Man-Stabbed-17-Times-in-Racist-Attack-20150117-0027.html). Maybe the fact that he was a regular dude minding his own business, and not an activist, is important to you. I don’t think it matters to his family. But if you’re cleverly getting at the fact that yeah, there’s a death-cult comprising Muslims who are fucking insane and want to kill people who draw Mohammad, just like there’s a death-cult of Christians who are insane and want to kill gay people and abortion providers, you’re correct. I don’t think you’d get any argument at all if you say that members of this death-cult are Bad Guys. What makes you look like an idiot is your inability to distinguish between members of the death cult and Muslims at large. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1084 "2015-05-28T19:36:47Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > > [@Kimstu](#): > > > > > [@Haberdash](#): > > > > > > “Would you be thinking the same way if Jews murdered an anti-Semite, or blacks murdered a KKK member?” […] the answer is always “yes I would and yes I have” > > > > Really? If Jews murdered an anti-Semitic writer, or blacks murdered a KKK-supporting writer, you would encourage the dissemination and celebration of the victim’s “brave” anti-Semitic or anti-black statements? You’d be out there wearing a button with the murder victim’s nickname and using the hashtag #JeSuisHymieHater or #JeSuisWhiteDominion? > > The ACLU supports racists’ right to free speech all the time. Could you please use regular English for your responses instead of your patented **Haberdash** SneakyObliqueSpeak? I wasn’t asking you whether the ACLU supports racists’ right to free speech. What I was asking you was whether you would indeed support a #JeSuisHymieHater or #JeSuisWhiteDominion campaign to honor the courage of an anti-Semite or KKK supporter murdered for their opinions, “the same way” that you’re demanding that everybody must support #JeSuisCharlie (or else be labeled an “Islam-apologist murder-justifier”). Got an answer? An actual answer? ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1085 "2015-05-28T19:48:23Z")
Why would you think there is an equivalence between advocating a holocaust and publishing a cartoon of Mohammad? Blasphemy isn’t racism, no matter how many times you say it is. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1086 "2015-05-28T19:50:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Here’s an example of Islamophobes murdering a Muslim who wasn’t even a “pro-Muslim speaker” Hate crimes happen, unfortunately. “You deserve to die for hurting my feelings,” not so much, in the West. I can’t speak for Hindus in India. They don’t seem particularly rational or peaceful either. There’s already one poster here who sees every dissent from Islam as part of the Hindutva conspiracy, and might even learn to spell “Hindutva” at some point. We don’t need two. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1087 "2015-05-28T19:51:20Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Why would you think there is an equivalence between advocating a holocaust and publishing a cartoon of Mohammad? So, contrary to what you claimed a few posts back, you would **not** in fact “be thinking the same way if Jews murdered an anti-Semite, or blacks murdered a KKK member”. Well, thanks for clearing that up for us. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1088 "2015-05-28T19:53:25Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > “You deserve to die for hurting my feelings,” not so much, in the West. I can’t speak for Hindus in India. They don’t seem particularly rational or peaceful either. So much for “there’s only one group whose vision of civil rights activism involves murdering people”. Thanks for clearing that up too. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1089 "2015-05-28T19:55:43Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > The once in a generation exception alluded to above, The victims of the Srebrenica massacre (the perpetrators of which are supported by your free speech hero Pamela Geller) say hi. > [@](#): > > a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic [Norway’s mass killer Breivik declared sane](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17663958) But hey, any straw you can grasp at, right? > [@](#): > > who managed to blow up a bunch of white Norwegians before being imprisoned. And shot ten times more. And did it because he considered his targets to be too pro-Muslim. > [@](#): > > And, somehow, no legion of leftists emerged to libel his victims and demand that his viewpoint be understood. No one led a boycott of ceremonies for the survivors. The major organs of progressive opinion did not run piece after piece about the gall of the victims who “punched down” and the need to reign in their “hate speech.” Of course not. That was entirely the purview of your fellow Islamophobes who supported Breivik and his Islamophobic influences (including, again, your free speech hero Pamela Geller). And, as Miller pointed out, none of them were engaged in any form of hate speech. Most, in fact, were children. > [@](#): > > How many more secularists will be killed by Muslims in the next thirty years before there’s another Breivik? How many were killed _today_? The score is pretty disparate. The Rohingya (whose encroaching genocide at the hands of extremist Buddhists is applauded by…guess who, your free speech hero Pamela Geller. Hmmm, I’m sensing a _pattern_ here) say hi. As do all the people mentioned by Kimstu and Left Hand of Dorkness. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1090 "2015-05-28T19:55:46Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Hate crimes happen, unfortunately. “You deserve to die for hurting my feelings,” not so much, in the West. “You deserve to die for hurting my feelings” is a major theme of American discourse, although it’s more commonly phrased as “It’s about ethics in games journalism.” You’re right that actual murder for hurt feelings doesn’t generally happen on a political, public level; that’s reserved for murdering government daycare workers out of insane conspiracy theories, or murdering people at the Holocaust Museum, or murdering random schmoes in the next door apartment, or murdering women for not having sex with the killer. Yes, there’s a death cult who practices Islam. Yes, this death cult has different features from the death cults who practice Christianity and Judaism and other religions. And yes, it’s been better financed and more effective at obtaining the world stage in recent decades than Christian death cults. But you’re an idiot for conflating the death cult with Islam as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1091 "2015-05-28T19:57:51Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > So, contrary to what you claimed a few posts back, you would **not** in fact “be thinking the same way if Jews murdered an anti-Semite, or blacks murdered a KKK member”. Well, thanks for clearing that up for us. You’re the one who made up this “obligated to spread a hashtag” nonsense. I never asserted any such thing. The matter of the content of the speech is a little different. I would expect the substance of a person’s anti-Semitic remarks to be accurately reprinted, if we are to believe that they were murdered for being an anti-Semite. That news organizations refused to reproduce the CH cartoons out of cowardice or deference to Sharia was, in my opinion, a double standard. Whether you approve of them or not, they were news. I certainly never claimed that any random individual is “obligated” to publish them, though. You are doing a good job of arguing against hypothetical people. Well, not so good actually. > [@Kimstu](#): > > So much for “there’s only one group whose vision of civil rights activism involves murdering people”. Thanks for clearing that up too. I don’t think people who go out looking for members of other religions to beat up consider themselves “civil rights activists.” That’s the key difference you’re ignoring – only Muslim violence is considered the progressive, justified act of a victim. Other types are rightly viewed as inexcusable. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1092 "2015-05-28T20:00:36Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “You deserve to die for hurting my feelings” is a major theme of American discourse, although it’s more commonly phrased as “It’s about ethics in games journalism.” Are there any other Bad People you’d like to baselessly try to associate non-Muslims with? Given that the Gamergate idiots seem to be motivated by a pathological hatred of women for daring to exist and speak as women, they actually have a lot more in common with Muslims than Islamophobes. > [@](#): > > murdering people at the Holocaust Museum Those people were probably Mossad agents plotting to drink Palestinian blood though, right? > [@](#): > > , or murdering random schmoes in the next door apartment, or murdering women for not having sex with the killer. You’ve lost your point and have descended into “how can you care about Muslims killing people when there are Other Bad Things! You have to solve all the problems before pointing out any of them, or you’re a hypocrite!” In other words, well-trod territory for this thread. > [@](#): > > Yes, there’s a death cult who practices Islam. Yes, this death cult has different features from the death cults who practice Christianity and Judaism and other religions. And yes, it’s been better financed and more effective at obtaining the world stage in recent decades than Christian death cults. Islamophobe! ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1093 "2015-05-28T20:00:57Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > You are doing a good job of arguing against hypothetical people. Well, not so good actually. > > […] > > That’s the key difference you’re ignoring – only Muslim violence is considered the progressive, justified act of a victim. Other types are rightly viewed as inexcusable. Hmmm… ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1094 "2015-05-28T20:02:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And that’s because none of the people Breivik killed were participating in hate speech. Which makes them distinctly different from the staff at Charlie Hebdo. This remains as much of a lie designed to smear murder victims as it was when Teju Cole first wrote it as he was watching the murderers hold shoppers hostage on TV. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1095 "2015-05-28T20:05:18Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > “You deserve to die for hurting my feelings,” not so much, in the West. Yeah, only in those third-world shitholes like [Sweden](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/02/sweden-mosque-attacks-fires-protests-gothenburg-malmo-stockholm): > [@](#): > > Witnesses reported seeing a man throw a petrol bomb at a mosque in Uppsala in the east of the country early on New Year’s Day, three days after a late-night blaze at a mosque in Esloev in the south. “Go home Muslim shit” was scrawled across the doors of the building. > > On Christmas Day, five people were injured in a suspected arson attack on a mosque in Eskilstuna, west of Stockholm. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1096 "2015-05-28T20:06:19Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Are there any other Bad People you’d like to baselessly try to associate non-Muslims with? Given that the Gamergate idiots seem to be motivated by a pathological hatred of women for daring to exist and speak as women, they actually have a lot more in common with Muslims than Islamophobes. Oh, like [these Muslims](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/leaders-of-jewish-hasidic-sect-in-stamford-hill-ban-women-from-driving-10280786.html). > [@](#): > > Those people were probably Mossad agents plotting to drink Palestinian blood though, right? Well, he was a [white neo-Nazi](http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/fall/murder-at-the-museum), a group [closely allied with your fellow Islamophobes](http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/08/25/white-supremacists-find-common-cause-with-pam-gellers-anti-islam-campaign/) like your free speech hero Pamela Geller (saaaaaay…). > [@](#): > > Islamophobe! Do you know why we call you an Islamophobe, but we don’t call him one, **Haberdash**? I’ll give you three guesses. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1097 "2015-05-28T20:08:35Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Yeah, only in those third-world shitholes like [Sweden](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/02/sweden-mosque-attacks-fires-protests-gothenburg-malmo-stockholm): Interesting that you pick anti-Muslim incidents – Sweden has a problem with anti-Jewish violence, committed mostly by Muslims of course. Even though there are 20 times as many Muslims as Jews in Sweden, there are more hate crimes directed against Jews. All of these is basically only an interesting bit of trivia as far as the topic of “being killed for writing the wrong thing” is concerned. Hate crimes in general are not that category any more than violence in general is. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1098 "2015-05-28T20:08:44Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Y only Muslim violence is considered the progressive, justified act of a victim. Except that nobody **is** considering these acts of terrorist-extremist Muslim violence to be “the progressive, justified act of a victim”. You have to get to work with your **Haberdash** Super-Seekrit Liberal Code decoder ring to pretend that any “progressive” person has said any such thing. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1099 "2015-05-28T20:12:39Z")
[quote=“A\_isha, post:1096, topic:713827”] Oh, like [these Muslims](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/leaders-of-jewish-hasidic-sect-in-stamford-hill-ban-women-from-driving-10280786.html). Yup, true-believer Judaism sure does believe some absurd, oppressive things. Why can I say that and not say the same thing about Islam? > [@](#): > > Well, he was a [white neo-Nazi](http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/fall/murder-at-the-museum), a group [closely allied with your fellow Islamophobes](http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2010/08/25/white-supremacists-find-common-cause-with-pam-gellers-anti-islam-campaign/) like your free speech hero Pamela Geller (saaaaaay…). Given that she survived an assassination attempt for her speech (by…was it Jews? oh wait, Muslims. How about that) less than a month ago, I think that’s an apt description. Pamela Geller believes many things that I don’t, including that the U.S. wars against Muslim countries are good and that immigration should be curtailed. But unlike the Muslims and lefties in this thread, I don’t consider “does this person agree with me” before addressing “does this person have human rights.” > [@](#): > > Do you know why we call you an Islamophobe, but we don’t call him one, **Haberdash**? I’ll give you three guesses. Must be one of those “WE’RE allowed to say it, but YOU’RE not” things. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1100 "2015-05-28T20:14:06Z")
Oh, and I don’t really think that “someone posted a link to Pamela Geller on a white supremacist message board” means that they are “closely allied” with her. I would not expect Geller, a Jew, to be allied with neo-Nazis, nor they to tolerate her. In fact, I recall reading this theory that the Jews are the ones really pulling the strings of the Nazi movement before…seems to be very popular among Muslims, in fact. Weird. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=56)