# The Fallen Blogger and the Spectre of Secularism **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827 "2015-02-28T03:21:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1161 "2015-05-29T20:35:33Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > You can in fact get [pork products from a Butterball-owned company](http://gustopack.com/products/). Not sure if they do heads, though. Damn. They’re \*really \*devious. Throwing people off their scent. Makes you think. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1162 "2015-05-29T20:57:58Z")
What’s the threshold number of bizarre beliefs about turkey companies that someone has to hold before it’s okay to murder them? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1163 "2015-05-29T21:01:30Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > I’m not going to debate whether the left got Communism wrong for decades and was proven to be utterly bamboozled (if not actively conspiring with a malevolent foreign power) when the truth came out. Facts aren’t subject to debate. I haven’t asked for a debate on anything, I was asking for your take on just how this supposed plot to overthrow the US goverment was supposed to be accomplished. As for facts: what you have presented so far on this subject are assertions. That’s something quite different. **Kimstu** is right: you seem to have some special definition of English grammar that is known only to you. > [@](#): > > If you would like to distance yourself from all the implications of “the left’s love affair with Islam in 2015 is just like its embrace of Communism in 1955” feel free to do so. Sorry, but I simply can’t. In all honesty, I love Islam precisely as much as I embrace communism. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1164 "2015-05-29T21:10:26Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > What’s the threshold number of bizarre beliefs about turkey companies that someone has to hold before it’s okay to murder them? Less than the number of your laughable strawmen about it. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1165 "2015-05-29T22:19:47Z")
Nice try, you evil Muslim, but you can’t fool me! Every number’s smaller than infinity! ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1166 "2015-05-29T23:06:04Z")
> [@A\_isha](#): > > Why am I not surprised that you uncritically accept the claims of the Islamists? Again, it seems that the Islamic extremists and the self-professed Islam haters are on the same side of things. Ignore what the protesters themselves are actually saying??? “I’ve come here to fight for Islam. We won’t allow any bloggers to blaspheme our religion and our beloved Prophet Mohammed,” said Shahidul Islam, an imam at a mosque outside Dhaka who walked 20 kilometres. > [@A\_isha](#): > > Oh, and _your own article_ says that there’s a lot more to the “protest” than your bigoted distillation of “Muslims want to murder secular bloggers” - " the secularists claim the main goal of the march is to halt the war crime trials of Jamaat-e-Islami leaders". “I’ve come here to fight for Islam. We won’t allow any bloggers to blaspheme our religion and our beloved Prophet Mohammed,” said Shahidul Islam, an imam at a mosque outside Dhaka who walked 20 kilometres. … What does the atheist blogosphere have ANYTHING to do with the government trials of Islamists? This was clearly a protest against atheist bloggers. Their own words say so. Your delusion has gotten the better of you: 500,000 people marched to chants of “kill the bloggers.” This is cut-and-dry. And it DOES represent a significant portion of the Muslim community. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1167 "2015-05-29T23:50:22Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > And it DOES represent a significant portion of the Muslim community. Nobody here is claiming that it doesn’t. I don’t know why you can’t seem to understand when I and others keep telling you that we liberal anti-Islamophobes **DO** recognize the existence of various forms of violent oppressive radical-theocratic Islam, and we **DO** think they have a significant presence within global Islam, and we **DO** think they pose serious threats to life, liberty and human rights. _ **But none of that means that various forms of violent oppressive radical-theocratic Islam are the SAME THING as Islam PER SE or Muslims IN GENERAL.** _ **Which is why _your continuing to insist on referring to violent oppressive radical-theocratic Islam by just calling it “Islam” without any qualifiers_ makes you _a dishonest malicious Islamophobic asswipe._** I really do not see how this could possibly be explained to you any more clearly. Shorter words, maybe? Let me know if it would help you to have it rephrased in shorter words. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1168 "2015-05-30T03:17:16Z")
^ Muslims as human beings must get the respect and love that every human being deserves. But as i said, everyone should be aware that Islam is a cancer. If the apologists here had seen Islam at work closer to their homes, they would agree with me. Meanwhile, 19 ismaili shia minority murdered in pak yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1169 "2015-05-30T03:30:51Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > Islam is a cancer. If the apologists here had seen Islam at work As per above: > [@Kimstu](#): > > If, after all this time and discussion, you can’t figure out how to complain about oppressive radical-extremist Islamist fundamentalism without just calling it “Islam”, then you are either too dumb to be in a conversation with rational grownups or else you’ve got an agenda of your own. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1170 "2015-05-30T03:46:38Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > As per above: No need to give it fancy names. It _is_ Islam. Islamic terrorism is directly attributable to Islam. After all normal Muslims only get radicalised to become Islamic jihadis.the average religious intolerance levelof Muslims is much higher than in people of other religions. This is directly attributable to Islam. You can see the polls of blasphemy apostasy sharia etc if you can’t understand the languages and so you don’t know what kind of bigotry to allowed and promoted in \*\*main stream \*\*media But like I keep saying, Muslims as human beings must Have the respect and love that every human being deserves. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1171 "2015-05-30T03:50:12Z")
[Hindu mob attacks and drives out Muslims over legally approved construction of mosque](http://indianexpress.com/article/cities/delhi/ballabhgarh-communal-tension-2000-men-unleashed-mayhem-fir/) > [@](#): > > May 30, 2015 > The violence in Atali began Monday evening, the flashpoint of a five-year dispute over the construction of a mosque. The mosque, adjacent to a temple, was torched and the Muslims of the village fled overnight. […] > > According to the FIR [First Information Report], the violence began with stone-pelting when the Muslims gathered to pray around 5.30 pm. “In a little while, around 2,000 people gathered there. They had swords, axes, spears, country-made pistols, petrol and gas." The FIR names six individuals, who allegedly attacked the Muslims with these weapons. The FIR adds that some of the accused fired in the air, which led to further injuries. In the next half hour, 20 houses, three cars, one tractor trolley, two tempos, 15 motorbikes and two shops were burnt […] > > The FIR also recreates the violence that left Naimuddin – a labourer working at the mosque – with severe injuries. It says that initially the accused tried to “kill him by burning him” and then “chopped off his fingers and toes with an axe”. Clearly, Hinduism is a cancer. Those who have suffered from seeing Hinduism at work at close quarters will doubtless agree. > [@truthSeeker](#): > > Islamic terrorism is directly attributable to Islam Just as Hindu terrorism is directly attributable to Hinduism. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1172 "2015-05-30T03:58:19Z")
> [@truthSeeker](#): > > No need to give it fancy names The need is to give it an **accurate** name. When you refuse to criticize a particular violent oppressive fundamentalist movement unless you can call it by a much more generalized name, you are not being accurate. And since there’s nothing particularly difficult or burdensome about calling a particular violent oppressive fundamentalist movement by an accurate name, then you must have some other reason for steadfastly avoiding and rejecting accurate usage. And it’s not very difficult to see what that reason is. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1173 "2015-05-30T04:01:40Z")
^if Hinduism was a cancer I would accept that happily but its not Islam. I don’t call myself a Hindu btw ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1174 "2015-05-30T04:24:53Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > ^if Hinduism was a cancer I would accept that happily but its not Islam. Fine. So according to your keenly analytical standards of discourse, Islam is a cancer and Hinduism is another cancer. Presumably every other religion any of whose adherents do violent oppressive things is also a cancer. Cancer-religion terrorism is directly attributable to cancer-religion. End of story. My, that was interesting and informative. We sure understand a lot more now about the complex cultural and political interactions of religious doctrines with historical developments than we did before you proposed that profound critical exegesis. [QUOTE=truthSeeker2] I don’t call myself a Hindu btw [/QUOTE] Yes, we know. You’ve told us before. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1175 "2015-05-30T10:32:18Z")
> [@truthSeeker2](#): > > If the apologists here had seen Islam at work. . . OK [Muslims ‘Give Most To Charity’, Ahead Of Christians, Jews And Atheists, Poll Finds](http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/07/21/muslims-give-most_n_3630830.html) [http://www.hhrd.org/hhrd-Programs.aspx](http://www.hhrd.org/hhrd-Programs.aspx) [http://www.islamic-relief.org.uk/](http://www.islamic-relief.org.uk/) > **[Islamic Relief USA - Working Together for a Better World](https://irusa.org/)** > > Islamic Relief USA provides relief and development in a dignified manner regardless of gender, race, or religion, and works to empower individuals in their communities and give them a voice in the world. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1176 "2015-05-30T13:51:24Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Ignore what the protesters themselves are actually saying??? Ignore their self-aggrandizing ridiculous exaggerations. Though uncritically accepting their statements allows you to pretend that they’re representative of Muslims and Islam, which is why you take the side of the extremists. > [@](#): > > What does the atheist blogosphere have ANYTHING to do with the government trials of Islamists? Because, as I _also_ told you three weeks ago, these bloggers played a prominent role in the Shabag protest movement which resulted in those trials, which is why Hefajat is targeting them. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1177 "2015-05-30T14:00:53Z")
So, last night some bikers (who, unlike Muslims, are a group that[actually killed a bunch of people in Texas recently](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Waco_shootout)) decided to hold a protest in front of a mosque in Arizona, holding up insulting drawings of Muhammad and wearing “Fuck Islam” t-shirts. And do you know what Muslims at the mosque did in response? NOTHING. The president of the mosque said “Everybody has a right to be a bigot. Everybody has a right to be racist. Everybody has a right to be an idiot. They’re not looking for an intellectual discussion. They’re looking to stir up a controversy and we’re not gonna be a part of it.” And that’s exactly what they did. ---
**Author:** ![A\_isha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@A\_isha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_isha)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1178 "2015-05-30T14:49:18Z")
Oh, and look who were among the anti-Muslim protesters in Phoenix: neo-Nazis. > How completely unexpected. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1179 "2015-05-30T20:04:43Z")
Certainly, the events in Phoenix did no one any favors. What could have been a focus on the issue of freedom to draw Mohammad, or the production of the aspiring Pamela Geller assassins by that mosque, or that particular mosque’s ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas, instead turned into a pointless volley of insults about Muslims, Arabs, and immigrants in general, with overtones of menace from people brandishing guns and no attempt to screen out Nazis and general troublemakers from the protest. It is curious, of course, that this is taken to represent everyone who dissents from the “what if murdering people for criticizing Islam is Actually Good” progressive line, when seemingly nothing that hundreds of millions of Muslims believe or do is taken as indicating anything whatsoever about the mysterious “real Islam.” But that won’t stop me from saying that these people do not represent me and I condemn this idiotic farce of a “protest.” ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827/1180 "2015-05-30T20:12:17Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > … or that particular mosque’s ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas… The mealy-mouthed “ties” is probably the only thing saving this statement from being libel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fallen-blogger-and-the-spectre-of-secularism/713827.md?page=60)