It is a mentally ill troll who simply likes making the bigotted and hateful comments around his extremist political agenda. I notice the same behaviorin this thread with the made up delusion discussion that occurs only in his own head.
It is boring.
You seem very upset about the thread denouncing Robert F Kennedy Jr’s anti-vax conspiracy theory. Are you an antivaxxer like many Muslims are?
A strange and mentally ill person and of course a hateful bigot with no capacity for the reading comprehension, I feel sorry for you.
but at least we see your delusional rant responses are generalized.
Do I need to have a djinn driven out of me?
I think the short-term political aspect is something that is foisted on the credulous. I don’t recall so much Islamophobia before 9-11. I think that the warmongers finally got their great excuse for war, and seized on demonizing Muslims to that end. If Fox existed then, it wasn’t very influential, everything was CNN. Anyway, mailers were sent out all over the country containing DVDs with scary videos of jihadist Muslims saying and doing horrible things. They were pretty slanted toward giving the impression that this was Islam itself, and that these guys :eek: OMG they’re everywhere!!
This is just one example. My point is that this kind of Islamophobia is manufactured. The people most susceptible to it (evangelicals IMHO, but there are plenty of others) share certain political/social/religious opinions to begin with, and these get hijacked in the service of spreading Islamophobia for outside elites’ political purposes- maybe just to get votes, to start wars, to kill Social Security believe it or not…
Anyway, I don’t think the Islamophobes ‘converted’ during this process are necessarily motivated by the short-term political interests you notice being in play- I think they are motivated directly by their anti-Muslim feelings. I think these feelings amount to a form of faith. You’ve seen the numbness to reason in our Islamophobe posters; you’ve seen the bizarre accusations they cast against those who argue with them; you’ve noticed the compromised, transparently bad case they make in defense of their views, and the lousy style of argument that goes with it.
Here’s what I see: You are right, there isn’t a discussion. It looks similar to a debate, but there never has been a debate between Reason and Faith, nor will their be. Reason seeks to engage in debate, and can be persuaded by a superior argument. Faith does not engage in debate, but rather in apologia. The lawyerly technique of apologia is not open to being persuaded by a superior argument, but rather seeks only to ‘defend’ its position, with whatever excuse for argument and evidence it can muster, ad nauseum if it must.
There is a peculiar extension to this among some Muslims who dispense with argument altogether and instead whack their critics with a meat cleaver, or shoot them with an AK-47, to silence them and end the ‘debate’. These violent morons are abominable, but what happened to the concept of the person committing the crime being guilty of it, and not ten million other guys who never even heard of the perpetrator?
Muhammad was not “attested in the Quran as a child rapist”. If you’re going to smear Islam do your research and get your facts straight.
Beyond that yes, like lots of figures in the Bible he allegedly talked to angels so the answer to your question as to what the Muslim standard for mental illness is “the same as the Christian or Jewish ones”.
Muhammed also didn’t make his fortune as a “highway robber”…he ran a widow’s merchant caravan for her, and then married her and took over the business. Then, after the Muslim thing started, and he and his followers were chased out of Mecca, he became the leader of the town of Yathrib/Medina, and then eventually, after a bunch of conquests, of most of Arabia and beyond. When he was leader of Medina, there was raiding of Meccan caravans and such, but Mecca and Medina were in the middle of a low-grade war at the time that would eventually escalate.
There was a long article written by a former Charlie collaborator I mostly agreed with that described the process at length (and with a number of examples), I’ll try and find it again when I’m done writing this post.
Ha, there it is.
That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying Charlie and whatever it said was mostly incidental to the attack (although for some reason it had wound up on radical Islam’s global shit list, hence the repeated attacks). It’s a bit like saying the L.A. riots of the 90s were caused by the verdict of the cops who beat up Rodney King. When of course in reality the cause was decades of unsanctioned abuse (or perceived abuse) of the poor, black community at the hands of a corrupt and overly brutal police force. The trigger was Rodney King.
And that’s really how I read the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in some parts of France : these kids get shat on from a great height just for coming from the wrong neighbourhoods*, or having funny names. Maybe they want to integrate, and maybe they don’t but whatever the case may be many French people just won’t let them regardless ; and while the State on one hand tries to help in ways, on the other hand it also sends cops to thump on them on a regular basis. Many, many cops. So, after years and years and years of this ; after seeing that their parents had to deal with this shit too and no change or hope on the horizon, a whole lot of these kids are in a “fuck me ? No,no,no, good sir, fuck YOU” frame of mind.
For some saying “Fuck you” to France and the French takes the form of petty vandalism, or deliberate failure in school, or going out to the posh neighbourhoods to find joyride fodder on saturday nights. For others it’s joining up with radical Islamists who came to proselytize and recruit a few useful empty heads - whatever the metropolitan French are scared of or don’t want them to do ; that’s what they *really *want to do. Simple as that. Nothing else works, and it’s not like they haven’t tried and tried to have their voices heard over the decades, in peaceful or not-so-peaceful ways. At least when you murder people they show you on TV, you know ?
Which brings us back to Charlie. Charlie had been the spearhead of the whole hullaballoo over those Danish cartoons of Muhammad in France (in fact they’d dedicated a whole issue, not just to those cartoons but Islam-bashing in general ; temporarily rebranding the paper as “Sharia Hebdo”. Witty, neh ?), and most of the intelligentsia supported them in this at the time because, well, fuck Muslims, right ? Where do they get off being offended by actions deliberately meant to offend them ?! And so, from this, to “fuck me ? No,no,no, fuck YOU”.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that when the Kouachis yell “we have avenged the Prophet !”, I’m not inclined to take them at their word. It was not about Charlie stricto sensu, or even about Islam, it was about the French zeitgeist as a whole.
Yeah, pretty much. We’re already deep in it, too - a whole wave of securitarian and freedom-restricting laws have passed recently. I just feel so safe now, you guys !
- I was genuinely stunned that this year at uni, during the requisite course in how to write a good CV for when you apply at Starbucks with a philosophy PhD in your pocket ;), the teacher sheepishly admitted that we should “be smart about the info you want to give. If you live in Mantes-la-Jolie be vague about it and just write “Paris region” instead”". Which IMO is both an avowal from an actual representative of the fucking State that the *cités *are pretty much written off at this point, and of course the offered solution is what we’d call “cauterizing a wooden leg” : HR folks aren’t retards, they know that wherever you’re vague on your resume, that’s where they oughta prod.
this is true. the al-qaeda achieved on thing they sought in that.
It is obvious that
In any case this Haberdash is only trolling and baiting, although probably from a real hatred and mental illness.
Kobol, this is well expressed. But I am sure the other party will end up* "knowing better "* than you
the person objects to the simple civilised dignity of burial to an enemy- although I am sure to reverse the case (as we see with the DAESH) this would be an object to point out horror and uncivilisation.
Not particularly, no. Would you care to give it a shot yourself?
Right, we all remember how “American Sniper” was forcibly suppressed so that there was no way for Haberdash to have gone to see it in the theater if he wanted to. Or bought it on Blu-Ray. Or read the book it was based on. The dark forces of the Shariapocalypse haunting the United States have succeeded in ruthlessly stamping out anything even slightly offensive to Muslims, haven’t they, Haberdash?
Wow, you really don’t know a single fucking thing about the Qur’an, Islam or Muslims, do you?
Great post.
I’m actually reminded of an earlier post I’d made on a different thread where on a similar subject I’d sarcastically referred to how during “the Troubles” in Northern Ireland getting caught in the wrong neighborhood spray painting or yelling “fuck the Pope” would have led to a severe beating or worse and a bunch of people started screaming that wasn’t remotely comparable because it had nothing to do with religion but tribal identity, historical antagonism etc. and various other things that without realizing it made them sound like they were cribbing from Arab intellectuals trying to explain the Shia-Sunni split in Lebanon or Iraq.
None of that was meant as an attack on the posters who said that, particularly the Irish ones.
It’s just a point that sometimes fish can’t see water and people are a lot more alike than we think.
Jesus fuck, you’re annoying. Is it Islam that makes you such a stringent douchebag?
You’re a moron and you don’t know shit about me.
Kobal2 thank you, I read it all with interest (will read the article) and I will try to come back later.
I was also talking to you and the Garry Trudeau article at the same time and that’s my bad.
No, she’s got it right. Anyone familiar with your posting style here knows exactly what you’re about.
Oh. Seems like I just got served with butthurt innuendo.
Sorry you feel that way after I treated you so gently.
I didn’t know I had a posting style. But lets do this more often.
The trouble with this list-of-atrocities style of argument, truthseeker and Haberdash, is that you need to produce 130 examples of Muslim atrocities, and then hold accountable ten million Muslims for each of those atrocities, before you reach the goal of demonstrating (not really) that all 1.3 billion Muslims live for a murderous jihadi rampage against everyone else.
For power? If people fear Muslims, al-qaeda is stronger? Or what? Not arguing with you, straight-up asking.
Well, - India was divided because of the Arabic religion.
- Kashmir today is the only Muslim majority state in India and has a separatist movement ongoing.
- Several hundreds of communal incidents in India every year to this date.
- Vast majority of killings in the name of religion have been Islam related. Al Qaeda, Taliban, Isis, Boko Haram, Al Shabaab, Lashkar-e-Toiba etc are Islamic terror organizations.
- Intolerance levels on average are the greatest in Muslims among all religious groups - blasphemy(Bangladesh bloggers, French cartoonists etc), apostasy etc.
These are facts!
Even non-extremists are much less tolerant on average. After all, the extremists come out of this lot only.
(See pew polls on blasphemy, sharia etc. Then see comments of many celebrated people on main-stream media, atleast of Pakistan)
But then, many Muslims are fine. To say every Muslim is intolerant would be a horrible generalization.
Muslim majority countries are a different category. I wish for secular countries like India, Russia and many European countries where Islam is still <20% , all Muslims voluntarily dissociate themselves with everything Islamic, such as Islamic names, beard, halal, Quran etc. Thats one of reasons why I keep posting all the atrocities happening all over the world in the name of Islam.