Meanwhile the American chapter of Hamas – err, I mean, CAIR – also wants anyone they deem “anti-Muslim” banned from speaking at a college:
Will this only apply to people who criticize Islam per se, or also chefs who use pork in their dishes, Jews in general, and all women? I’m sure we’ll find out.
Apparently, for Haberdash, only spreading bullshit about Muslims counts as “free speech”. Calling him out on his hate, expressing distaste for the similar hateful things said by other Islamophobes, disagreeing with the giving of an award, or protesting the showing of a movie, however, don’t count. Daring to blaspheme the sacred works of Charlie Hebdo directly is right out.
Wow. You have actually managed to surpass your previous record for ignorance and stupidity by asserting something that was obviously disproved in a post directly addressed to you on this very same page.
See that post at the top of the page where I linked to Teju Cole’s remarks published in The Intercept, where he explicitly states that he would “rather honor Raif Badawi, [or] Avijit Roy” or several others who “paid steeply for their courage”? Yeah, right there is the exact “publicly expressed support” that I’m talking about.
The Qur’ān in Its Historical Context, edited by Gabriel Said Reynolds, may seem pricey at first glance, but considering what you get out of it, it’s a very good bargain (in paperback, at least). It’s a collection of papers presented at a conference held at Notre Dame in 2005, and includes overviews of recent scholarship on the authorship and construction of the Qur’ān, the theological Christian influence on it, and medieval and modern emendations of the text.
John Burton’s The Sources of Islamic Law: Islamic Theories of Abrogation, however, is an extremely pricey work. With luck, you might be able to find it a library (particularly a university library) near you, because it’s a fantastic look at the theory of naskh, or abrogation, which forms a major part of the anti-Muslim nonsense about how Islam is an inherently violent religion that wants to murder all non-Muslims. Burton explains how the theory was developed as a rhetorical tool by the nascent schools of Islamic law for use in their debates with each other, and how this nebulous theory used in inter-school polemics resulted in a mass of contradictory assertions about which verses, if indeed any, were declared to be abrogated or un-abrogated. The only drawback (aside from the price) is that Burton is a specialist addressing his work to other specialists, and so it’s slightly dense and opaque going at times.
Yes, he’s very good at hypothetically respecting victims of Islam, but despite the fact that he has regular columns in SIX periodicals, he has not actually written a damn thing about either of those people. Funny how, when presented with the opportunity to say something about an actual victim of Islam, he furiously distances himself and invokes his hypothetical bravery.
If PEN actually was giving an award to Avijit Roy, Cole would be writing the same thing he wrote about Hebdo.
You evidently still can’t grasp the difference between disagreeing with a victim of violence about something and blaming the victim for the violence that happened to them.
I’m in no way assigning any blame whatsoever to the victims at Charlie Hebdo for the terrible crime perpetrated against them. But that doesn’t mean I’m required to pretend that some of them didn’t sometimes say assholish things—which, again, in no way justifies or excuses any of the violence against them.
Bullshit on the “progressives” claim: of course, there were plenty of fundamentalist Muslims who were okay with the Charlie Hebdo murders. But if you’re trying to assert that there was even one progressive, Muslim or otherwise, who said that the murders were justifiable or excusable, then you need to provide a cite.
It’s no use expecting anyone to believe your unsupported assertion that there were “plenty” of progressives who said that, because you have already revealed yourself to be an extremely unreliable source when it comes to assertions of fact.
If they believed that they had a journalistic duty to re-publish those cartoons, then deciding not to publish them was wrong. I don’t defend anybody’s backing down from saying something they believe they really ought to say just because they’re afraid of the consequences of saying it.
But that is not at all the same thing as actually condoning or excusing the Charlie Hebdo murders, which neither the NYT nor any other media outlet did.
Evidently, you really don’t understand how awards work.
Let me try to explain it to you again: Awardees are chosen from groups of many different qualified candidates for the award. To support giving an award to one candidate rather than another does not constitute any kind of attack, direct or implied, on the rights of the candidate you don’t support.
Your interpretation of Cole’s position is just as absurd and stupid as saying that if I happen to disagree with the award of the 2014 Best Actress Oscar to Cate Blanchett, it should be taken as a “clear statement” that I don’t believe Cate Blanchett is entitled to work as an actress.
My my, look at those goalposts move. When it’s pointed out to you that you’re flat-out wrong in complaining that Cole has not publicly expressed support for Badawi or Roy, because he explicitly does express support for both of them in the statement he gave to the Intercept, you switch to complaining that he didn’t write about them in one of his columns.
Maybe by “progressives” he means “far-right Republican-supporting devout ultraconservative Catholics”:
This part isn’t exactly true. There were a number of people in France who expressed some measure of support for the actions of the terrorists, including comedian and notorious anti-Semite Dieudonne, who expressed sympathy for the guy who shot up the Kosher market the same day. He was arrested by the French government three days later, for “sympathizing with terrorists.”
Somehow, I’m guessing Stringbean and Haberdash won’t be clamoring for him to receive a free speech award.
Let’s be even more specific: PEN did, in fact, give an award to Raif Badawi, before the CH attacks and thus before any comparison was necessary, and Cole didn’t attend the ceremony, or mention it in any of his six columns, or participate in the award in any way. So, his claim that he just thought there were more worthy candidates and has been waiting for a chance to honor Badawi is an already-demonstrated falsehood.
He would “much rather” do anything but acknowledge that Islam is, by a factor of a hundred, the main opponent of free speech today, and every time he’s given the choice to choose a side he picks the wrong one.
Dieudonne’s free speech rights have been violated. His arrest was wrong and he is entitled to monetary civil remedies from the French government.
Look how quick that was! And yet I’m still waiting for you to demonstrate the willingness to criticize even one thing about Islam.
And yes, many Catholics including the Pope himself essentially wrote “behead those who insult Islam” into Catholic doctrine. They too have chosen the wrong side, as the Church always does, in the eternal battle between freedom and religion.
Badawi was given a One Humanity award by PEN Canada, given to a writer whose work “transcends the boundaries of national divides and inspires connections across cultures”, which is not the same thing as the Toni and James C. Goodale Freedom of Expression Courage Award by PEN America.
PEN Canada, incidentally, is the same organization that had this to say about the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons:
Luckily, the idiotic “hate speech” law in Canada was repealed last year, so the ridiculous notion that anyone has to “uphold” the “beliefs of others” is no longer a needed disclaimer.
Here’s a message for Canadian Muslims: http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/461/349/1600/Crybaby%20Muhammad.0.jpg
Are they progressives? Are they on “the left”?
Sweetie, you do understand that PEN International has different and autonomous International PEN Centers in different countries, right?
And that the 2014 PEN Canada One Humanity award mentioned in your linked article was awarded to Raif Badawi by PEN Canada?
And that Teju Cole is involved with a different center, the PEN American Center, and that what he recommended honoring Raif Badawi with was a different award, the PEN/Toni and James C. Goodale Freedom of Expression Courage Award?
No, I’m willing to bet you didn’t understand any of that till I just explained it to you.
Suffice it to say that the two awards you’re talking about are different awards from different organizations, and the fact that PEN Canada gave an award to Raif Badawi doesn’t imply any “falsehood” or hypocrisy whatsoever in Cole’s suggesting that PEN American Center should also give an award to Raif Badawi.
ETA: ninja’d by A’isha.
I would also wonder what Miller thinks about the enormous popularity of Dieudonne’s standup comedy, which involves a nonstop stream of Holocaust denial and anti-Jew invective, among the French Muslim community as well as the white neo-Nazi party which commands the loyalty of 20% of the French electorate; or about the fact that North African Muslims in soccer and basketball have adopted the inverted Hitler salute popularized by Dieudonne. It doesn’t reflect well on the myth of the tolerant average Muslim. But you can hold off on addressing the person you brought up until you find one thing about Islam you don’t like (you can choose Dieudonne as the one thing, if you want).
They didn’t say “uphold the beliefs of others”. And they didn’t base their urging of voluntary restraint on Canada’s hate speech law (which, the introduction to that piece notes, they supported the repeal of), but PEN International’s own charter.
You’re really terrible at this, aren’t you?
I don’t know what Miller thinks of it, but as a staunch free speech advocate who disdains all religions, you’re all for it, right, Haberdash?
Is Teju Cole a war criminal or something? My understanding is that he’s an American citizen with no criminal record and thus is free to visit Canada at any time he chooses. You would think someone who is chomping at the bit to honor Raif Badawi would book a $200 flight to Toronto and make good on his claims, whether he sits on the award committee or not. I guess maybe he was lying?
