# The Falsity of Religion: Twelve Indisputable Arguments **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 28, 2004, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868 "2004-03-28T04:39:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/41 "2004-03-28T21:22:54Z")
> [@Science Girl](#): > > Religion is VERY emotional, have you not read the Bible? It’s filled with emotion. And it is said to be absolute. The Bible does not say “well, this is what God says right now, but maybe he can be proven wrong.” Only science says that. Once again, your narrow-minded concept of “religion” is your weakness. I didn’t say diddly squat about Christianity. Religion as an entity is as unemotional as science. Like science, how people interpret and feel about it leads to human emotion. Scientists can be fairly emotional when it comes to their areas of study. Like science, religion is open to interpretation. Gods do not necessarily need to communicate via words, and even if they do, it is necessarily open to interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/42 "2004-03-28T21:29:28Z")
Science Girl is ignoring refutations to her statements. That seems like the antithesis of science to me. If she were truly interested in science, surely she would be intent on answering all charges. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/43 "2004-03-28T21:40:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Science Girl is ignoring refutations to her statements. That seems like the antithesis of science to me. If she were truly interested in science, surely she would be intent on answering all charges. Well, she is mainly trolling with elitist ideas that self-purportedly “shake our world” by “offending common perceptions.” I have yet to see her reply to one argument with something other than either another copy and paste or “I’m just a poor colored girl,” despite her continued statements of being absolutely logical and following professional debate format to the letter. Hey, honey, in debates, one typically responds to other people. In reality, you’re behaving in the same manner as a religious evangelist, only your religion is “logic.” ---
**Author:** ![Science\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Science\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Science_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/44 "2004-03-28T21:59:49Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Well, she is mainly trolling with elitist ideas that self-purportedly “shake our world” by “offending common perceptions.” I have yet to see her reply to one argument with something other than either another copy and paste or “I’m just a poor colored girl,” despite her continued statements of being absolutely logical and following professional debate format to the letter. > > Hey, honey, in debates, one typically responds to other people. > > In reality, you’re behaving in the same manner as a religious evangelist, only your religion is “logic.” There you go again with all the subjectivity. When someone proves me wrong, I just stay quite and hope my opponent understands this as an indication of academic yielding. But, when someone proves you wrong, you shoot your emotional load at them. Well, to each his own. Thanks for the debating fun, I’m done now. Mods, thanks for the free trial. I must now get back to my studies. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/45 "2004-03-28T22:26:05Z")
I thought Fred Phelps claimed to be the most controversial author in the world; if that is the case, then by Agument Number 11, neither Phelps nor Bryant actually exists. Or something. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/46 "2004-03-28T22:32:29Z")
> [@Science Girl](#): > > There you go again with all the subjectivity. When someone proves me wrong, I just stay quite and hope my opponent understands this as an indication of academic yielding. But, when someone proves you wrong, you shoot your emotional load at them. Well, to each his own. No, I tend to shoot my emotional load at people regardless of being right or wrong. Unlike yourself, I have beliefs and convictions beyond "baah baah"ing other people’s arguments like a sheep, and I stand by them instead of trolling around preaching without an iota of critical thinking. When you prove me wrong on a point, gimme a call so I know. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/47 "2004-03-28T22:49:27Z")
Did anyone notice that Birdman’s site represents “the world’s ONLY website of Real Free Speech,” that he’s “The World’s Most Controversial Author,” and that he’s “NOW RANKED IN THE TOP 1/10 PERCENT OF ALL WEBSITES WORLDWIDE!!” Yep, he’s “The Net’s MOST POPULAR libertarian/pro-freedom website and SECOND-MOST-POPULAR pro-Western-civilization/pro-White site!” I can see why Science Girl is so infatuated with him. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/48 "2004-03-28T23:07:11Z")
This is a gem: > [@](#): > > While you may from time to time encounter hostile comments about my books ([Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) formerly carried my books, and several reader reviews posted on their site were hostile), it is well to keep in mind that it is the very excellence of my work that attracts hostility; for my enemies see quite plainly that it is the excellent rather than the mediocre books which are a threat to their prejudices, ignorance, stupidity or agendas, and thus it is the excellent books which in their view must be attacked. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/49 "2004-03-28T23:29:00Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > No, I tend to shoot my emotional load at people regardless of being right or wrong. Unlike yourself, I have beliefs and convictions beyond "baah baah"ing other people’s arguments like a sheep, and I stand by them instead of trolling around preaching without an iota of critical thinking. > > When you prove me wrong on a point, gimme a call so I know. Well, you are from Berkeley… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/50 "2004-03-28T23:44:25Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > Did anyone notice that Birdman’s site represents “the world’s ONLY website of Real Free Speech,” that he’s “The World’s Most Controversial Author,” and that he’s “NOW RANKED IN THE TOP 1/10 PERCENT OF ALL WEBSITES WORLDWIDE!!” Yep, he’s “The Net’s MOST POPULAR libertarian/pro-freedom website and SECOND-MOST-POPULAR pro-Western-civilization/pro-White site!” > > I can see why Science Girl is so infatuated with him. I think he’s over-compensating for something ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/51 "2004-03-29T01:57:54Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > I disagree with your second statement there (and probably your first as well–_some_ gods are sufficiently well-defined that their existence can be disproven; many can be disproven to the same degree we regard other absurd claims as disproven, even if we can’t disprove them in a strict, logical sense). For example, the views of those who, based on their religious faith, proclaim that homosexual acts are inherently immoral are _not_ unassailable, and should be challenged. I think that folks who wish to assert that their anti-gay faith trumps civil law should be vigorously challenged, but there’s really no arguing against irrational facets of a faith that is nonsensical to begin with. We can say that hating gay people seems to contradict the Christian commandments to love one’s neighbors, but if some folks think thet their god demands that they hate gay people, then that really is outside the realm of logical refutation. Fundie Christian hatred for gays is, IMO, just one of those odd requirements of their religion, like the Hindu veneration for cows and Jewish aversion to pork. ---
**Author:** ![Science\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Science\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Science_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/52 "2004-03-29T02:25:55Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I thought Fred Phelps claimed to be the most controversial author in the world; if that is the case, then by Agument Number 11, neither Phelps nor Bryant actually exists. Or something. I agree with you here. I find many logical fallacies in the John Bryant’s article here, but also many good arguments. Regards. ---
**Author:** ![Science\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Science\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Science_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/53 "2004-03-29T02:27:39Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > Did anyone notice that Birdman’s site represents “the world’s ONLY website of Real Free Speech,” that he’s “The World’s Most Controversial Author,” and that he’s “NOW RANKED IN THE TOP 1/10 PERCENT OF ALL WEBSITES WORLDWIDE!!” Yep, he’s “The Net’s MOST POPULAR libertarian/pro-freedom website and SECOND-MOST-POPULAR pro-Western-civilization/pro-White site!” > > I can see why Science Girl is so infatuated with him. So what is your argument? Regards. ---
**Author:** ![Science\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Science\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Science_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/54 "2004-03-29T02:30:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Science Girl is ignoring refutations to her statements. That seems like the antithesis of science to me. If she were truly interested in science, surely she would be intent on answering all charges. My apologies. I’m not ignoring them, rather, lack of time on my part. I read everything, lots of arguments by you guys that I agree with. Thanks for the input. Regards. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/55 "2004-03-29T02:31:41Z")
> [@Science Girl](#): > > So what is your argument? > > Regards. I wouldn’t call it an argument, just an observation: he’s a loony. ---
**Author:** ![Science\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Science\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Science_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/56 "2004-03-29T02:34:25Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > I think that folks who wish to assert that their anti-gay faith trumps civil law should be vigorously challenged, but there’s really no arguing against irrational facets of a faith that is nonsensical to begin with. We can say that hating gay people seems to contradict the Christian commandments to love one’s neighbors, but if some folks think thet their god demands that they hate gay people, then that really is outside the realm of logical refutation. > > Fundie Christian hatred for gays is, IMO, just one of those odd requirements of their religion, like the Hindu veneration for cows and Jewish aversion to pork. Yes, i believe Christianity is full of contradictions and hypocrisy. Someone was asking why I focus on Christianity only? Because it’s the main religion here in the united states and the religion directly affecting my life. If I were in Europe though, my major concern would be Islam since it’s the fastest growing religion there. Regards. ---
**Author:** ![Science\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Science\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Science_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/57 "2004-03-29T02:36:13Z")
> [@skutir](#): > > I wouldn’t call it an argument, just an observation: he’s a loony. “Loony” is too subjective a word for me. Can you please state your characterization of John Bryant for me in more objective terms? Thanks. Maybe you can even state his personality in psychometric terms, if you have some knowledge in this field? Regards. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/58 "2004-03-29T02:42:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Religion is VERY emotional, have you not read the Bible? It’s filled with emotion. But note this: And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, **and with all thy mind** ; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. Matt. 10:25-28 (KJV) (emphasis mine) Christianity is a thinking religion. True, there is plenty of emotion involved, but it’s not supposed to be simply a “feelgood” religion. The commandment above specifically states that a believer is supposed to use his or her brain. Some have tried to turn it into an emotional experience, though. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/59 "2004-03-29T03:12:16Z")
> [@Science Girl](#): > > “Loony” is too subjective a word for me. Can you please state your characterization of John Bryant for me in more objective terms? Thanks. Maybe you can even state his personality in psychometric terms, if you have some knowledge in this field? > > Regards. If you know anything about psychometrics, you know I would have to give the subject a battery of tests in a controlled situation, not scan his website, to give him a score. In any case, such metrics aren’t necessary to spot the fact that he’s a run-of-the-mill poached-egg-eyed megalomaniac. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868/60 "2004-03-29T05:26:19Z")
None of the 12 arguments was compelling, but #12 was the most idiotic of all. Look, I’ve gotten into some semi-heated arguments with SDMB regulars. So, for the sake of argument, suppose some conspiracy theorist or tin foil-hat wearer that I’ve insulted issued a dare: “I challenge you, Astorian, to meet me tomorrow, at high noon, in the middle of Times Square, so we can engage in a formal debate.” Would I show up? Would I even bother to send my regrets? Of course not! I’d consider the source, and ignore such a silly challenge. And if that clown chose to interpret my absence as a sign that I’m afraid of him and his keen intellect, what would I care? And if I’m prepared to laugh off challenges from people I don’t respect, and whose opinions mean nothing to me, I daresay God can afford to be equally nonchalant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-falsity-of-religion-twelve-indisputable-arguments/236868.md?page=4)