# The "Far Left" is already being demonized **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 7, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994 "2020-11-07T17:53:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/502 "2020-11-15T13:21:00Z")
Here’s a new [David Shor interview](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/11/david-shor-analysis-2020-election-autopsy-democrats-polls.html) on the outcome of this election. The man has that silly rose emoji in his twitter bio. He is not out to demonize the “Far Left” as far as _political beliefs_ are concerned. His focus is _messaging_. One highlight in a long interview especially relevant to this thread: > [@](#): > > I think the reality now is that whenever any elected Democrat goes out and says something that’s unpopular, unless the rest of the party very forcefully pushes back — in a way that I think is actually very rare within the Democratic Party currently — every Democrat will face an electoral penalty. And that’s awkward. But I think it’s a natural consequence of polarization and ticket-splitting declining. I think progressives try to get around this awkward reality by saying, “Well, Republicans are going to demonize us no matter what we say or do.” But I don’t think that kind of nihilism is justified. What they say actually does matter. Parties and candidates that say less controversial things, and are associated with less-controversial ideas, win more elections. > > I think that the only option that we have is to move toward the median voter. And I think that really comes down to embracing the popular parts of our agenda and making sure that no one in our party is vocally embracing unpopular things. I know that sounds reactionary. But moderates don’t have a monopoly on popular ideas and progressives don’t have one on unpopular ideas. There are a lot of left-wing policies that are both popular and transformational. Worker co-determination. A federal job guarantee. There’s still a lot we can do. Except there isn’t a lot that can be done, not right now, not without those Senate runoffs in Georgia. The presidential result is so startlingly positive for the country as a whole that I think some people are having trouble seeing how ridiculously good this election was for the GOP, at least as long as they win those Senate runoffs. This was a MASSIVE win for the Republicans, if Georgia goes red for the Senate. The Republicans would have just won a Senate that should have gone the other way, secured SCOTUS, ensured policy gridlock for four years cementing their previous agenda, dumped a highly divisive and incompetent president, and positioned themselves to take the House in two years, and very likely Congress and the presidency in four. Someone like Ted Cruz now knows exactly what stupid shit he needs to say to rally the base behind him. I don’t think people should trust every little thing David Shor says in that interview, but Obvious Point Is Obvious: campaigns should emphasize the points where they’re popular and can win votes, and not emphasize points where they’re unpopular and can lose votes. Win the median voter and you win. That’s how an election works. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/503 "2020-11-15T13:35:30Z")
Okay, here’s some really useful data, also based on the V-Dem dataset that @Whack-a-Mole referenced above. [![](https://miro.medium.com/max/1859/1*V6Bzy66DfG5NEdVrgy5ljw.jpeg) ](https://miro.medium.com/max/1859/1*V6Bzy66DfG5NEdVrgy5ljw.jpeg) The diagram comes from [this article](https://eand.co/biden-won-but-has-trump-broken-america-63f5e563fba7). It shows where US Democrats and Republicans stand on a range on indicators, compared to each other, compared to where they stood in 2000, and compared to _all_ other parties in democracies around the world. Gray bars are world parties, ruling parties (in 2018) above the line, others below. The dark vertical lines are the median values. As you can see, the Democrats are about center-left on most indicators by world standards, and the Republicans are far…far… to right of median world standards on _every_ indicator, and have become far more extremist since 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/504 "2020-11-15T14:01:29Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Flip all the results round. You think the Democrats would be saying “Well this shows Americans are center-left and it was just a vote against the presidential candidate”? You think Dems would say the election was theirs? > > I don’t. I think it would be largely considered a failure, and Democrats would be thinking about where they went wrong. And I would agree with them. Who wins the white house matters, 200k+ Americans found that out the hard way, and we haven’t even seen all the ripple effects yet from things like stacked courts. Definitely. Democrats flipped the Presidency. Republicans flipped New Hampshire. Nothing else changed. If it had happened to the Democrats, we’d consider it a big loss ---
**Author:** ![yarblek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/71e660/32.png) [@yarblek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yarblek)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/506 "2020-11-15T14:25:15Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > As you can see, the Democrats are about center-left on most indicators by world standards, and the Republicans are far…far… to right of median world standards on _every_ indicator, and have become far more extremist since 2000. That’s a nice graphic. I think the Dems are about an equal number to the right and to the left on it, though. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/507 "2020-11-15T17:12:48Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > This was a MASSIVE win for the Republicans, if Georgia goes red for the Senate. > > The Republicans would have just won a Senate that should have gone the other way, secured SCOTUS, ensured policy gridlock for four years cementing their previous agenda, dumped a highly divisive and incompetent president, and positioned themselves to take the House in two years, and very likely Congress and the presidency in four. Someone like Ted Cruz now knows exactly what stupid shit he needs to say to rally the base behind him. Even worse, they can gerrymander for another 10 years. ---
**Author:** ![RyanAdam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@RyanAdam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyanAdam)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/508 "2020-11-16T21:46:40Z")
Thanks, a useful cite and commentary. The median voter (in the actual USA) I think embedded in this article is a similar lesson about focusing on the median, [Liberals envisioned a multiracial coalition, voters of color had other ideas](https://nyti.ms/3nsV1XF), along with other data showing the Democrats under performing among Latinos because they fooled themselves into thinking political activists = broader population. Same with youth (same error of the 60s and 70s mistaking coastal university profile for all youth). Fallacious thinking, confusing a subset as broadly representative. The advice in that comment is about not alienating the middle and not being completely tone deaf in marketing to the pre sold rather than bringing in new customers. People like me, I can’t stay in the Republican party the way it is now, but a party that thinks Twitter Activists and MultiCulti academic leftists are great to follow is going to lose. As I’d like to see the sick fever called Trumpism cured, this disappoints me since the Far Left is blowing it. And hair splitting or special pleadings about what is far… whatever, non Americans don’t vote here so you play the field you’re on, not dream of the one you want. ---
**Author:** ![RyanAdam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@RyanAdam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RyanAdam)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/509 "2020-11-16T21:59:19Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > Interracial marriage is actually an instructive example. > > It’s the only item on your list that was wildly _unpopular_ at the time of legal victory (Loving v Virginia). And what did civil rights leaders of the 60s do on the topic? > > They _de-emphasized_ it in their pursuit of goals that were more broadly popular at the time. … > > Civil rights leaders of the time were _incredibly_ sophisticated about message discipline, on such an extreme level that practically no one understands it today. > > … > > It wasn’t just empty moral posturing for them. They actually cared if they succeeded, rather than the unfortunate strain of people who care merely about being seen in public furiously flying the correct flag while being utterly indifferent to actual political success which has a chance of making people’s lives better. There is an unfortunate tendency of the internet that it can seem to signal boost empty but furious flag waving, to the detriment of sophisticated and effective political organization. This is a wise and pragmatic post, the last paragraph in particular. I read somewhere in reading this Spring an article at some center Left site talking about the difference between the Activist approach, all about drumming up outrage and motivation among the converted, and Organizers (using union organizers as the example) who learn and have to build an approach to “convert” (my words) the doubtful. The article called for more Organizers work, less movement activist approaches. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2020, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/510 "2020-11-16T22:08:11Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > Policies with the support of an outright majority of people are popular policies. > > That is inherent in the meaning of the word “popular”. You have an odd sense of “popular”. I guess you are meaning it only in the very strictest sense. But let’s face it. If you were hosting a party with 100 guests and 51 loved the shrimp rolls and 49 vomited after eating them I do not think anyone would say the shrimp rolls were “popular”. As for other issues on the list, as I said, many remain controversial even now. Vice President Pence has spoken out against women in the military. Gay men in the military remains an ongoing issue. Attempts to overturn gay marriage continue. I showed you that even women voting has some pundits speaking against that. I didn’t list the Voter’s Rights Act but when the Supreme Court nerfed it I think it took a few states literally only days to undo those protections. Your sense of what is “popular” is skewed and your sense that everyone should shut-up until something is popular is even more strange. It remains that rights are not corrected in this country because people waited until it was “popular” to do so. They had to fight for their rights the whole way and always started from an unpopular position. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/511 "2020-11-17T03:27:00Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > This was a MASSIVE win for the Republicans, if Georgia goes red for the Senate. > > The Republicans would have just won a Senate that should have gone the other way, I think this view suffers from ‘recentism’ and is a bit overstated. I think a longer-term perspective is worthwhile - a year or so ago [few thought the DP had a good shot at the senate](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/5/18306339/senate-democrats-2020-election-map). This election was not a massive defeat for the Democrats - it wasn’t really a defeat at all. It was really more a reversion to the political mean. The DP won the presidency, went +1 on the Senate and lost ground in the House, but didn’t lose it. A number of the House losses (certainly so in CA) are long-time safe red seats that flipped back from the ‘Blue Wave’ of 2018. It’s a disappointing result only because “everyone” was hoping for a massive repudiation of Trump and a related down ballot pummeling of the RP as a whole for backing him. That didn’t happen. Which is a little existentially sobering, I suppose. I’m not exactly doing cartwheels as I look at the state of the currently polarized USA. But it also isn’t worth getting depressed about. You just have to take the modest win you have and try and build on it. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/512 "2020-11-17T14:45:26Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > But let’s face it. If you were hosting a party with 100 guests and 51 loved the shrimp rolls and 49 vomited after eating them I do not think anyone would say the shrimp rolls were “popular”. Just above, you called Ann Coulter a “popular” pundit when I’d guess an outright majority of people who know who she is dislike her to the point of near vomiting. Is she popular, or not? This new example is inconsistent, too. If 51 people loved them, and 49 vomited _after eating them_, then the shrimp rolls were insanely popular. Literally every single person at the party chose to have some. A reasonable person would suspect food poisoning, and would be lamenting their previous popularity, not denying it. > [@Tamerlane](#): > > I think this view suffers from ‘recentism’ and is a bit overstated. Wrong on both counts. It’s generally best to use the most updated information available – erroneous as it happened to be in this particular case. But even more than that, a year ago I still would have called losing a winnable Senate, when Trump lost the presidency, a major win for the country even as it was a major loss for the Democrats, regardless of what the current projections were at the time. But I tried to avoid talking about politics here for the last four years, to avoid being banned from posting in rage. I’m not “depressed” right now. I’m still elated with the presidential result. But without the Senate, the Democrats are fucked for at least four years. Maybe even eight or twelve. Just a fact. Bloody obvious one, too. Does anyone here think McConnell is going to allow the same court rubber-stamping he has been doing the last four years, not just for SCOTUS but also the lower courts, if he remains majority leader? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/513 "2020-11-17T16:49:57Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > Just above, you called Ann Coulter a “popular” pundit when I’d guess an outright majority of people who know who she is dislike her to the point of near vomiting. Is she popular, or not? I’ll let @Whack-a\_Mole answer for sure on that one, but I think the point was that he was using _your_ definition of “popular” specifically as an example to show that it was not a good definition. > [@Hellestal](#): > > This new example is inconsistent, too. If 51 people loved them, and 49 vomited _after eating them_ , then the shrimp rolls were insanely popular. Except that we are talking about our democracy here, where _everyone_ is required to eat a shrimp roll. Would you say that paying taxes is insanely popular, since everyone does it? Visiting the BMV, the Dentist? If nearly half vomited after eating them, then a reasonable person would be looking into what is wrong with them, and make sure that the next time they have a mandatory appetizer, it is not contaminated with Cryptosporidium. ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca90](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boudicca90/32/16818_2.png) [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/514 "2020-11-17T20:02:33Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > If you call yourself ‘anti-capitalist’, as BLM and the DSA do, you are far, far to the left of the ‘Nordic Model’, which us just Capitalism with a slightly larger safety net. > > There is a DSA member in this very thread calling out Democrats who keep trying to make them sound more moderate than they are. They are explicitly NOT ‘social democrats’. They are socialists who want the means of production taken away from the capitalists and given to the workers. > > The only countries that ever tried this ended up as despotic shitholes with very high death counts. > > The DSA and Black Lives Matter are not a tiny bunch of flakes like the John Birchers. They have representatives in Congress, in state houses and city councils and mayorships. They get headline news. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a rock star among young Democrats. Portland almost elected a mayor who calls herself ‘antifa’ and who wears skirts with the pictures of left-wing dictators and murderers on it. Funny how it takes a conservative to point this out to liberals. They continuously try to downplay our views and the policies we support because they don’t want to be associated with us. It’s insulting and aggravating. The DSA is Marxist and anti-capitalist, with the ultimate goal of collective ownership of the means of production and we have many communists and anarchists in our ranks, along with more moderate social democrats who support us more for the policies we support rather than the end goal. We recognize that we need to take things one step at a time in such a conservative and capitalist nation, and so we engage in the system to make things better for the people in the meantime, to the chagrin of other leftists who think it is a waste of time and we just have to wait for the revolution to happen, or some crap like that. People like Bernie and AOC are very influential in the DSA, but they have to moderate their positions and views in order to better fit into the centrist Democratic Party and so they aren’t a great example of who we are. That’s a big part of the frustrations I feel towards Dems, because we viewed Bernie as a moderate among us who could more effectively deal with them and reach a compromise. But they weren’t having it and instead chose a neoliberal who would just continue the same ineffective and inadequate policies of the Obama administration that inevitably set the stage for the coming of Trump and fascism. So yes, I and the DSA are Marxist and anti-capitalist. But we are a big tent so we have a very diverse collection of views outside of that. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/515 "2020-11-17T20:09:38Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > You just have to take the modest win you have and try and build on it. The only way to build on a modest win when one was expecting a huge victory is to analyze, understand, and work on correcting what went wrong. There is no way to avoid criticizing behaviors that resulted in worse outcomes and calling upon people to change them and work for better results. This process is not “demonization” and anyone who claims it is needs to be shut down immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca90](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boudicca90/32/16818_2.png) [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/516 "2020-11-17T20:16:07Z")
> [@RyanAdam](#): > > I read somewhere in reading this Spring an article at some center Left site talking about the difference between the Activist approach, all about drumming up outrage and motivation among the converted, and Organizers (using union organizers as the example) who learn and have to build an approach to “convert” (my words) the doubtful. The article called for more Organizers work, less movement activist approaches. We have discussed this in the DSA, and I agree. We have been playing defense too much with Trump as President, constantly having to react to the things he did rather than pushing our own agenda. While activism will still be important in the coming years as we will continue fighting for and protesting for Black Lives Matter and other important movements and issues that the Dems will definitely forget about once they are in power again, we need to start focusing more on outreach and education. Too many people in this country are suffering under capitalism, but we brainwash our citizens with the hope of an increasingly non-existent “American Dream” that is becoming untenable as capitalism becomes more unsustainable. We need to point this out to people more and help them see where the injustice truly lies and what the solution is. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/517 "2020-11-17T21:36:09Z")
I agree with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortes regarding the Democratic Party’s incompetence. However, I also believe that Bernie would definitely have lost his election. And it wouldn’t have been close. ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca90](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boudicca90/32/16818_2.png) [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/518 "2020-11-17T22:22:45Z")
I always believed Bernie, or just about anybody, would have a better chance than the human wooden stump. The results of the Democratic wins and losses have shown that when candidates advocate for progressive policies like Medicare for All and Green New Deal, they win. The centrists who ran away from meaningful change and supported the status quo lost. And then they have the nerve to blame us for their failures. The lackluster showing of Biden has shown that people don’t want more of the same, so I absolutely believe Bernie would have done better. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/519 "2020-11-17T22:48:17Z")
> [@Boudicca90](#): > > The results of the Democratic wins and losses have shown that when candidates advocate for progressive policies like Medicare for All and Green New Deal, they win. Yeah, because when they advocate for those, they are running in a deep blue district with the only opposition is during the primary. Most people think Medicare for All is- The program called Medicare for everyone. It isnt. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Medicare. Sanders crazy plan is unfeasible. He gave it that name to conceal it’s true purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2020, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/520 "2020-11-17T23:13:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, because when they advocate for those, they are running in a deep blue district with the only opposition is during the primary. Exactly. I recall hearing that so far statistics show that the percentage of conservatives has _increased_ among the American population in the last four years. People claiming the labels liberal or left is smaller than both self-style moderates and conservatives. Yes, I am on the left and I want liberal policies enacted, but we are in an existential fight against fascist authoritarianism. We will lose if we move to the left. The Trump presidency has brought us to the brink of destroying our democracy. Biden’s victory is but a respite. Our institutions are shaken, and anything that would lead to even temporary Republican gains would put more chinks in the walls. Moving to the left would destroy leftism in America for a generation. There isn’t enough support to win enough elections from the left and each loss to the Republicans is devastating. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/521 "2020-11-18T16:04:50Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > _your_ definition There are reference materials available if a [standard English language word](https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/popular) is unknown, or its use confusing. I can specify exactly which definition of those listed I happen to be using, if confusion persists. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/522 "2020-11-18T16:17:08Z")
No, I know that it is an ambiguous enough of a weasel word that you can make it mean more or less anything you want it to mean, or need it to mean in order to score your points. Even different things within the same post, as you have done. The problem is, is that that means that you are not saying anything of substance, just meaningless platitudes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994.md?page=27)