# The "Far Left" is already being demonized **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 7, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994 "2020-11-07T17:53:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/523 "2020-11-18T16:42:14Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Even different things within the same post, as you have done. That didn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/524 "2020-11-18T17:12:36Z")
Actually, looking back, it _was_ over two posts. My bad. In #446, you are talking about things that are “broadly popular”, as a requirement for getting a plank. Later, you are admitting that things that were not popular (as in supported by a majority) at the time that they were introduced became popular later. It is only a minority of definitions of the word popular that indicate a majority. If you are insisting that you only intend to use it that way, not only are you using a less popular definition, you are also wrong, as many of those very things that are now supported by the majority were not supported by the majority when they were first added to the platform. In any case, your pointless and incorrect pedantry aside, if we only ever advocate for things that the majority already accepts, then there is no need for advocating anything. That’s kinda the whole point of advocating things, to _make_ them popular. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/525 "2020-11-18T17:16:17Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > There is no way to avoid criticizing behaviors that resulted in worse outcomes and calling upon people to change them and work for better results. Constructive criticism is good. That is happening a little bit in this thread. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > This process is not “demonization” and anyone who claims it is needs to be shut down immediately. There is demonization going on in this thread as well, where those who advocate more progressive policies are not only being told that it is their fault that Biden only won by a small margin, they are also being told that they must be shut down immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/526 "2020-11-18T17:59:05Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > In #446, you are talking about things that are “broadly popular”, as a requirement for getting a plank. Later, you are admitting that things that were not popular at the time that they were introduced became popular later. That doesn’t represent an inconsistency in my use of the word “popular”, which you literally just accused me of “weaseling” about. This is an accusation of inconsistency in my position, which is a different thing. Also untrue. But still different. The one specific example I mentioned in this thread of a position that “became popular later” **was decided legally by the courts, not an electoral campaign push** , as I already said. This was interracial marriage. It never needed to be a plank of an electoral campaign because it was already law. And in fact, I specifically pointed out how civil rights activists, at the time the position was unpopular, carefully stepped around that issue in order to focus on more popular issues that they were more likely to win. Interracial marriage went from extremely unpopular to extremely popular, with no campaign implications because the courts had already decided it. A political campaign is simply not a necessary part of changing people’s minds. Activists can change people’s minds, and the broader culture can change, too, without the issue ever becoming an electoral topic. If there is further confusion about my position, I can continue to clarify. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/527 "2020-11-18T21:53:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, because when they advocate for those, they are running in a deep blue district with the only opposition is during the primary. Right. Look at 2018. The reason the Democrats swept into the House wasn’t because the progressives were beating Republicans in House races. It was because centrist Democrats were beating Republicans in large numbers (a lot of those joined the New Democrat Coalition). ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/528 "2020-11-18T23:36:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Most people think Medicare for All is- The program called Medicare for everyone. It isnt. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Medicare. Sanders crazy plan is unfeasible. He gave it that name to conceal it’s true purpose. Meaning absolutely nothing. I would be shocked if most voters could describe the details of Sanders’ healthcare plan versus any other healthcare plan whatsoever. Just like voters didn’t like Obamacare but liked the ACA (which is the same thing). What we need is a nationwide agreement that we should work towards some version of Universal Healthcare. Once we do that we can argue the details. People like you arguing that Sanders’ plan is just horrible only works against the larger goal. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/529 "2020-11-18T23:39:33Z")
No, just the opposite. Too many people thing we have to have Sanders plan or nothing or that Sanders plan is somehow related to medicare. Sanders plan needs to taken out and shot, then we can have a real debate. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/530 "2020-11-18T23:53:09Z")
Really? Too many people think it is Sanders’ way or nothing? We can’t even start the conversation because Sanders’ plan is the only plan? Because…why? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/531 "2020-11-19T05:18:43Z")
Because that is what everyone brings up “Medicare for All” over and over and over, like it is the only IHC plan ever. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/532 "2020-11-19T06:47:47Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Too many people think it is Sanders’ way or nothing? When progressives ignore the desire of candidates to provide UHC that’s NOT M4A, and blame that position for why they lost? Yeah, you’re gonna find a significant group of people think progressives are stating “My way or no way”. Are you really surprised by that? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/533 "2020-11-19T14:19:13Z")
Progressives reliably voted for both Clinton and Biden. They are a pragmatic bunch. It was the moderate/centrist Clinton supporters who bailed on Obama in big numbers that were very much more “my way or no way”. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/534 "2020-11-19T16:16:40Z")
Do you guys think at least some responsibility is on establishment Dems for advocating for their vision of UHC more strongly? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/535 "2020-11-19T19:06:44Z")
The problem is “pie in the sky”. See, you have sanders with his crazy plan (mind you, if it could be passed, it would be good, except expensive) and Joe with his “baby steps”. Sanders plan, _if you had a magic wand_- would be fine. But it will _never, ever pass Congress._ It is unfeasible. Joes plan _could_ pass congress- but many accuse it (rightly) of not going far enough. So let us say someone said “What would you rather have- one chance in a million trillion of a million bucks in the future, or a coin flip for $10000 cash right now?” Smart & practical people would go for the 50/50 and the cash in hand. Dreamers will go for the impossibly tiny chance. Is Joes plan great? Nope. But it is a baby step. Free ACA for the poor, and the age for medicare lowered. Next we extent both, redefine poor to include those lower middle class struggling, and lover medicare gae by another five years. And so forth. Sooner or later, _everyone_ has healthcare. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/536 "2020-11-19T19:26:42Z")
Thee perfect is the enemy of the good. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/537 "2020-11-19T19:31:08Z")
I wonder if your, and other’s, characterization of his plan as crazy may have to do with why it would “never, ever pass congress”? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/538 "2020-11-19T19:38:19Z")
Yes, I have said that. [quote=“DrDeth, post:535, topic:924994”] Sanders plan, _if you had a magic wand_ - would be fine. But it will _never, ever pass Congress._ It is unfeasible. [/quote] It can not possibly, under any scenario, pass congress. Totally impossible. I also dont care for his deliberate misnaming his plan. Thus it is taking attention away from serious, practical and possible ideas to get use closer to UHC. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/539 "2020-11-19T19:41:40Z")
That seems to contradict the moderate/centrist voters who came out in support of Biden in a big way. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/540 "2020-11-19T19:45:55Z")
How so? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/541 "2020-11-19T19:46:01Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > Interracial marriage went from extremely unpopular to extremely popular, with no campaign implications because the courts had already decided it. A political campaign is simply not a necessary part of changing people’s minds. Activists can change people’s minds, and the broader culture can change, too, without the issue ever becoming an electoral topic. Gay marriage also went from something that was widely opposed to something that is generally accepted, in a shorter span of time than support for interracial marriage. And it did that while being a major factor in electoral politics. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/542 "2020-11-19T19:48:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It can not possibly, under any scenario, pass congress. Totally impossible. Can you name any plan…ANY plan…that would pass congress intact? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994.md?page=28)