# The "Far Left" is already being demonized **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 7, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994 "2020-11-07T17:53:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/161 "2020-11-09T13:12:44Z")
Oh bullshit. I used to believe just like everyone else until I actually looked at the evidence. It’s not a hive mind, they aren’t sheeple. It’s normal for people to believe what everyone around them believes, that’s why religions exist. Mostly my choice is going to be to keep quiet, just as I’d keep quiet about my atheism if I lived in a religious community. Confirmation bias makes it unlikely US feminists will recognise that the equality act contains sections that are harmful to women and girls, but if any do, they will be afraid to speak up. That’s what I was explaining to @urbanredneck2. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/162 "2020-11-09T13:14:37Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Oh bullshit. I used to believe just like everyone else until I actually looked at the evidence. It’s not a hive mind, they aren’t sheeple. It’s normal for people to believe what everyone around them believes, that’s why religions exist. Again, you frame it as though it’s your viewing of the evidence that makes you different, and that everyone who disagrees must just be going along to get along. Quite the self-serving narrative you’ve got there. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/163 "2020-11-09T13:31:30Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Oh bullshit. I used to believe just like everyone else until I actually looked at the evidence. It’s not a hive mind, they aren’t sheeple. It’s normal for people to believe what everyone around them believes, that’s why religions exist. Correct-- that’s why, until just a couple years ago, I’d never met anyone transgender, didn’t know of anyone who was transgender, and didn’t care much about trans rights. No one around me cared about trans rights either. Then I stated looking at the evidence, and I realized that these are people living every single day feeling like they’re in the wrong body. I saw the huge amount of evidence about how much these people suffer and how much getting gender reassignment helps them. So I changed my stance. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/164 "2020-11-09T14:03:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Again, you frame it as though it’s your viewing of the evidence that makes you different, and that everyone who disagrees must just be going along to get along. Quite the self-serving narrative you’ve got there. No, I’m saying when you don’t allow free discussion of the evidence then it’s not surprising the majority subscribe to a particular belief. Look how many countries around the world are majority religious. > [@Babale](#): > > Correct-- that’s why, until just a couple years ago, I’d never met anyone transgender, didn’t know of anyone who was transgender, and didn’t care much about trans rights. No one around me cared about trans rights either. > > Then I stated looking at the evidence, and I realized that these are people living every single day feeling like they’re in the wrong body. I saw the huge amount of evidence about how much these people suffer and how much getting gender reassignment helps them. So I changed my stance. I don’t want to derail this thread further, but a big problem with the equality act is that it requires transgender women and girls to be allowed to compete in women’s sports, possibly even if they have had no hormone therapy. I do believe trans people suffer and gender reassignment is the best treatment for many, but it doesn’t magic away the advantages of going through male puberty. This is unfair and taking away opportunities from those with the disadvantage of being born female. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/165 "2020-11-09T14:12:00Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > No, I’m saying when you don’t allow free discussion of the evidence then it’s not surprising the majority subscribe to a particular belief. Look how many countries around the world are majority religious. The United States allows free discussion of both religion and trans rights. And yet the US has a much higher proportion of its population that says that religion is important to daily life than other developed Western nations. Eta: there was just a massive thread about trans rights so I’m not gonna get into the weeds on that here. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/166 "2020-11-09T14:24:12Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > No, I’m saying when you don’t allow free discussion of the evidence then it’s not surprising the majority subscribe to a particular belief. You should start a thread on this topic and have a free discussion of the evidence on this message board. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/167 "2020-11-09T14:31:53Z")
If by ‘free’, you mean you could easily lose your job, your friends, your community (in the case of religion) sure. I actually think this is one of the reasons for the rise of the alt-right. If you insist people must believe axioms that contradict their own experience, then you create conditions that can lead to them rejecting the entire philosophy. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/168 "2020-11-09T14:35:22Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > If progressive issues are scary to voters and moderate Joe Biden is the only thing saving the Dems, how do you explain the fact that in the deep red state of Florida the $15 minimum wage (a “radical left” issue that many mainstream democrats won’t touch) passed but Biden lost? It is a mistake to suppose that **“the radical left supports position X, therefore position X is radical left”**. That is not how it works. What characterizes the “radical left” is the positions they hold exclusively, not the positions they hold in common with others. More than two thirds of Americans want a 15$/hour minimum wage. Support for a higher minimum wage is so thoroughly mainstream that more than 40% of people who are Republican or Republican-leaning also support it. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/169 "2020-11-09T14:37:37Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I actually think this is one of the reasons for the rise of the alt-right. If you insist people must believe axioms that contradict their own experience, then you create conditions that can lead to them rejecting the entire philosophy. Believing axioms that contradict your own experience is exactly what an educated person does. My father came to this country with, quite literally, nothing. He is now very well off, after decades of working his ass off for our family. In his mind, this means anyone can start from nothing and end up well off. No excuses. If I only worked from my own experience… well, my father literally pulled himself up by his own bootstraps. He’s exactly what Republicans think immigrants should be. And yeah, he’s very conservative. I look at his situation, I understand that he really did have a deck stacked against him, and I see everything he accomplished through hard work. I also recognize that this path won’t work for everyone. I see the opportunities he was able to take advantage of, even as a foreigner with very little money, that minorities in this country are blocked from. Getting an education means looking at the aggragated experience of millions of people using specific methodology designed to collate these results meaningfully. That’s what I’ve done, and it’s why I’m able to think about the matter more critically than “my dad is a self made man, so if you aren’t able to pull yourself out of poverty you are lazy and bad”. Are you sure having everyone think only based on what they’ve personally experienced is a good idea? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/170 "2020-11-09T14:38:54Z")
> [@Hellestal](#): > > It is a mistake to suppose that **“the radical left supports position X, therefore position X is radical left”**. That is not how it works. What characterizes the “radical left” is the positions they hold exclusively, not the positions they hold in common with others. Agreed – that’s why my post has “radical left” in “scare quotes”. I agree that most issues people attribute to “far left socialists” (like Harris, apparently) are quite centrist. ---
**Author:** ![Hellestal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hellestal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hellestal)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/171 "2020-11-09T14:44:19Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Agreed Ah, sorry for misunderstanding you. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/172 "2020-11-09T15:08:29Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Are you sure having everyone think only based on what they’ve personally experienced is a good idea? No, but I do think if you are trying to get people to disbelieve their own experience, you better make damn sure the evidence is on your side. Because when they find out it isn’t, they are going to feel they were lied to and can no longer trust anything you say. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/173 "2020-11-09T15:20:13Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > …they are going to feel they were lied to and can no longer trust anything you say. Four years of Trump supporters ignoring Trump’s manifold lies belies this. Indeed, it argues that such people are immune to facts and discussion and desperately cling to their pre-conceived notions. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/174 "2020-11-09T15:27:48Z")
Demontree’s anti-trans rhetoric proves my point pretty thoroughly, so I’m happy to let her proceed. Of course what’s happening is that some “centrists” want to silence the voices of folks on the left, whether out of fear of right-wing propaganda or out of a broad agreement with the right. You can recognize this behavior by their misrepresentation of leftist positions, their false claims of victimhood (“BUT WE’RE BEING SILENCED!!!”), and their bogus claims that if only left-wing people didn’t advocate for left-wing positions, magically Republicans would start voting for centrists. #notallcentrists, of course, but enough that all reasonable-minded people should view such demonization of the left with jaundiced eye. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/175 "2020-11-09T15:44:15Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Four years of Trump supporters ignoring Trump’s manifold lies belies this. Indeed, it argues that such people are immune to facts and discussion and desperately cling to their pre-conceived notions. I was talking about the alt-right there, not Trump supporters in general. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/176 "2020-11-09T15:47:18Z")
Is the distinction important for this? I mean, we can do it with lots of things and not necessarily an ALT-Right thing such as vaccine rejection (which interestingly spans political groups albeit for different rationales). ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/177 "2020-11-09T15:50:05Z")
Sigh. This is anti-trans rhetoric? > [@DemonTree](#): > > I don’t want to derail this thread further, but a big problem with the equality act is that it requires transgender women and girls to be allowed to compete in women’s sports, possibly even if they have had no hormone therapy. I do believe trans people suffer and gender reassignment is the best treatment for many, but it doesn’t magic away the advantages of going through male puberty. This is unfair and taking away opportunities from those with the disadvantage of being born female. Advocating for all views to be heard is silencing people? You’re living in looking glass land. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/178 "2020-11-09T15:52:08Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I mean, we can do it with lots of things and not necessarily an ALT-Right thing such as vaccine rejection (which interestingly spans political groups albeit for different rationales). Interesting point. I suppose the loss of trust in authority (government, scientific establishment, etc is similar). The question is why have they lost trust. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/179 "2020-11-09T15:57:51Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Advocating for all views to be heard is silencing people? All views are not created equal and some really do not deserve the public’s time. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/JIjenjANqAk/hqdefault.jpg "Flashback: McCain tells supporter Obama is 'a decent...") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIjenjANqAk&t=28) ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994/180 "2020-11-09T16:05:47Z")
Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger (D-VA) - 11/6/20 > [@](#): > > We want to talk about funding social services, and ensuring good engagement in community policing, let’s talk about what we are for. And **we need to not ever use the words ‘socialist’ or ‘socialism’ ever again**. Because while people think it doesn’t matter, it does matter. And we lost good members because of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-far-left-is-already-being-demonized/924994.md?page=10)