# The federal government made a serious mistake by caving in to Cliven Bundy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 13, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993 "2014-04-13T05:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/421 "2014-04-23T00:36:39Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > Which still sounds to me like he’s referring to the BLM restricting access to public lands by protestors and the public at-large, and not necessarily to the access of Bundy and his trespassing cattle. But I’ll allow that he may have been intentionally ambiguous, so as to play both sides of the fence. (heh) Reading the whole thing: > [@](#): > > I spoke with BLM Director Kornze this morning to express great disappointment with the way that this situation is being handled. I told him very clearly that law-abiding Nevadans must not be penalized by an over-reaching BLM. After hearing from local officials and residents, and receiving feedback from the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association in a meeting this morning, I remain extremely concerned about the size of this closure and disruptions with access to roads, water and electrical infrastructure. I will continue to closely monitor this situation, and urge the BLM to make the necessary changes in order to preserve Nevadans’ constitutional rights. That’s exactly what I thought. It’s vague but reassuring, in that fashion that politicians love. “The way the situation is being handled” can mean practically anything, for instance. The statement can be ready as supporting the protesters’ rights, supporting Bundy in his claims, concern for disruptions of the roads, you name it. In any event, nothing there speaks of a desire to take control of federal land, but to shirk any responsibility to maintain it. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/422 "2014-04-24T13:26:18Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Do you have any context for that quote? It’s hard to draw a firm conclusion otherwise; in a vacuum, it’s not a controversial statement at all, of course law-abiding Nevadans should be penalized by a government agency. :smack: Should **not** be penalized, that is. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/423 "2014-04-24T13:52:58Z")
Not that this has anything to do with land rights or gun rights, but it turns out that on top of everything else, [Bundy is an old-school racist](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/24/roger_ailes_owns_cliven_bundy_now_how_dumb_opportunism_became_a_right_wing_nightmare/). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/424 "2014-04-24T13:53:02Z")
Flinty-eyed gummint’-hatin’ cowpoke turns out to be an unabashed racist. [Film at 11](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/04/cliven-bundy-wants-to-tell-you-all-about-the-negro/361152/). Equally unsurprising is Fox News’ [wall-to-wall coverage](http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/search?&submit=Search&q=cliven+bundy&ss=fn&sort=date) of this latest development. ETA: ninja’d! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/425 "2014-04-24T14:18:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not that this has anything to do with land rights or gun rights, but it turns out that on top of everything else, [Bundy is an old-school racist](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/24/roger_ailes_owns_cliven_bundy_now_how_dumb_opportunism_became_a_right_wing_nightmare/). For the benefit of those who ignore links that might tell them something they don’t want to hear: > [@](#): > > “I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he told a small group of people gathered to see him, which included Adam Nagourney of the New York Times. Bundy told of driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do. > > “And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he continued. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/426 "2014-04-24T14:20:00Z")
He has a point, you know. _None_ of my black friends know how to pick cotton. What’s up with that? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/427 "2014-04-24T14:45:20Z")
Bundy is quite the poster boy for freedom and rights. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/428 "2014-04-24T14:55:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He has a point, you know. _None_ of my black friends know how to pick cotton. What’s up with that? It’s only taught in grad school these days. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/429 "2014-04-24T15:12:58Z")
I hope somebody makes a campaign ad taking Bundy’s slavery comments and putting them next to GOPers who have called him a patriot. Though sadly, in some areas, that would probably win him more votes ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/430 "2014-04-24T15:16:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not that this has anything to do with land rights or gun rights, but it turns out that on top of everything else, [Bundy is an old-school racist](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/24/roger_ailes_owns_cliven_bundy_now_how_dumb_opportunism_became_a_right_wing_nightmare/). I’d have been surprised if he wasn’t, especially as his specific gripes (government assistance ruining people) dovetail nicely with his general contempt for the government. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/431 "2014-04-24T15:23:19Z")
It’s only a matter of time before he starts blaming the Jews for the whole affair. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/432 "2014-04-24T15:27:39Z")
[And **now** the GOP is trying to distance themselves!](http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/gop-scrambles-condemn-ranchers-remarks-race-n88556) ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/433 "2014-04-24T15:32:34Z")
Good for them, I suppose. That’s the proper, moral thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/434 "2014-04-24T15:44:11Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I’d have been surprised if he wasn’t, especially as his specific gripes (government assistance ruining people) dovetail nicely with his general contempt for the government. Well, in some ways this reminds me of Phil Robertson’s stance that government intervention has made life worse for black people during his lifetime. I don’t find all this attitude all that surprising for people who start with a basic assumption that government can do no right and work backwards from there, even though believing it means disregarding reality. But even Phil Robertson never said that they were better off under _slavery_. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/435 "2014-04-24T16:06:32Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I hope somebody makes a campaign ad taking Bundy’s slavery comments and putting them next to GOPers who have called him a patriot. Though sadly, in some areas, that would probably win him more votes [This](http://news.yahoo.com/list-cliven-bundys-supporters-now-know-hes-pro-133625625.html) comes close. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/436 "2014-04-24T16:14:20Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Good for them, I suppose. That’s the proper, moral thing to do. Yeah, but this is politics, and one of the unshakeable rules of politics is, if you lie down with dogs, you get fleas. It’s up to the left to make sure opportunist senators like Rand Paul and Dean Heller are kept itching for a good long time. This is yet another example of how contemporary political complaints about “federal government overreach” are really based on a racist world-view. I’ll concede there are many honest conservatives who have legitimate grievances about the federal government. But until the GOP deals with the racism in their base–and stops trying to court them with dog-whistles like Paul Ryan’s recent exegesis on “inner city culture”–I just can’t take it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/437 "2014-04-24T17:32:24Z")
It appears that [even Bundy is trying to distance himself](https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/posts/631224826954329?stream_ref=10) from Bundy’s comments. _There are new rumors going around about Cliven. We all know that with the media, words are taken out of context, meanings are twisted, and they can take anything and turn it into what they want it to be. Cliven is a good man, he loves all people, he is not a racist man. He wants what is best for everyone._ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/438 "2014-04-24T17:39:03Z")
[Conservatives now appear divided on Bundy.](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/24/conservatives_cant_decide_whether_to_disown_or_defend_cliven_bundy/) Some are condemning him, some are dodging/dismissing the racism question – and some are actually defending him: > [@](#): > > Radio host and the Blaze contributor Dana Loesch, for example, responded to Bundy’s comments with a shrug of her shoulders, writing, “I hope no one is surprised that an old man rancher isn’t media trained to express himself perfectly.” Loesch did grant that, “at face value,” Bundy’s comments on race were “odd and sound[ed] offensive” but she also claimed that Bundy was, essentially, correct. “He seems to be decrying what big government has done to the black family,” Loesch wrote, “which big government has negatively affected not just the black family, but all families regardless of ethnicity [.]“ Loesch then went on to argue that Bundy was a distraction and that the larger issue of government overreach was in no way made less legitimate just because its mascot turned out to be an unreconstructed bigot. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/439 "2014-04-24T17:42:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not that this has anything to do with land rights or gun rights, but it turns out that on top of everything else, [Bundy is an old-school racist](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/24/roger_ailes_owns_cliven_bundy_now_how_dumb_opportunism_became_a_right_wing_nightmare/). Wait, what are the racist’s rules now? My grandparents picked cotton, the closest I’ve come to it is being able to recognize cotton when I’m driving by it. I’m still not sure any of us are Negroes, but my grandparents were probably more resourceful than I am. Man, racism is confusing. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/440 "2014-04-24T17:48:51Z")
[Bundyfest](http://http://youtu.be/LZ85BJ6SJxY) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993.md?page=23)