# The federal government made a serious mistake by caving in to Cliven Bundy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 13, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993 "2014-04-13T05:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/441 "2014-04-24T17:54:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Equally unsurprising is Fox News’ [wall-to-wall coverage](http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/search?&submit=Search&q=cliven+bundy&ss=fn&sort=date) of this latest development. Still nothing. I hesitate to ascribe some kind of political motive to this lack of coverage, of course. Maybe they’re just busy covering all the other big stories going on today. You know, like [35 year old murder cases](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/24/body-found-in-texas-lake-is-helen-holladay-report-says/). ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/442 "2014-04-24T17:56:11Z")
I know it’s wrong, but I desperately want to watch Hannity trying to distance himself for that. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/443 "2014-04-24T18:03:32Z")
I saw the link, looks like a lot of Conservatives are now backing away. I doubt he gets much continued support after this. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/444 "2014-04-24T18:16:34Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Well, in some ways this reminds me of Phil Robertson’s stance that government intervention has made life worse for black people during his lifetime. I don’t find all this attitude all that surprising for people who start with a basic assumption that government can do no right and work backwards from there, even though believing it means disregarding reality. > > But even Phil Robertson never said that they were better off under _slavery_. Right, it seems like a fairly common talking point for the radical anti-government crowd, just taken to an extreme. > [@CJJ](#): > > Yeah, but this is politics, and one of the unshakeable rules of politics is, if you lie down with dogs, you get fleas. It’s up to the left to make sure opportunist senators like Rand Paul and Dean Heller are kept itching for a good long time. Certainly, though their immediate repudiation of Bundy’s remarks will help them avoid some of the blowback, I’m sure. > [@scabpicker](#): > > Wait, what are the racist’s rules now? > > My grandparents picked cotton, the closest I’ve come to it is being able to recognize cotton when I’m driving by it. I’m still not sure any of us are Negroes, but my grandparents were probably more resourceful than I am. > > Man, racism is confusing. It sure is; if I’m parsing Bundy correctly, the continuum of freedom goes like this: Employed non-slave \> employed slave \> non-slave on public assistance. Apparently being owned by another person and working for no reward save for a lack of physical abuse or death is less destructive to human freedom than swiping a food-stamp card. I did not know that. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/445 "2014-04-24T18:20:26Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > I saw the link, looks like a lot of Conservatives are now backing away. I doubt he gets much continued support after this. Not much political support. But I don’t think any of his freedom-loving militia supporters are going to be put off by his words. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/446 "2014-04-24T18:28:57Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Not much political support. But I don’t think any of his freedom-loving militia supporters are going to be put off by his words. He will lose some - but I agree he won’t lose all. There are those who agree with him, but even some of those don’t want to be asked by the media why they are backing a guy who sounds like a Klanner. It is amazing how “other things came up” gets trotted out when the issue gets more complicated. My WAG? Loses 50% of support from the range riders, mainly among the younger ones. ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/447 "2014-04-24T18:31:11Z")
Hopefully the feds will “get” Cliven Bundy in some other way (I reluctantly agree that turning a cattle round-up into a turf battle would’ve been very bad for all concerned). From the moment that whole story broke I knew whose side I was on and it wasn’t the fellow’s from Nevada. And the more I read about that “person” the less I like him. He must not be allowed to get away with his thievery and his attempts (apparently successful) at intimidation. I hope the administration comes up with a (hopefully bloodless) way of dealing with him, and SOON! ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/448 "2014-04-24T18:42:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Still nothing. I hesitate to ascribe some kind of political motive to this lack of coverage, of course. Maybe they’re just busy covering all the other big stories going on today. You know, like [35 year old murder cases](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/24/body-found-in-texas-lake-is-helen-holladay-report-says/). I just scoured the Fox News main page and subpages looking in vain for any mention of Bundy or his courageous struggle against tyranny. It’s almost like he never existed! In the meantime we can read about Ashley Tisdale’s wardrobe malfunction and the new hip Ronald McDonald, though. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/449 "2014-04-24T18:43:43Z")
[22 right-wing delusions about the Bundy standoff.](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/24/fox_news_worst_cliven_bundy_lies_22_right_wing_delusions_about_the_absurd_standoff/) ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/450 "2014-04-24T18:49:06Z")
I wonder how happy that reporter was when he heard the magical words “I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro…”. No way that sentence was going to end in something that didn’t make the papers. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/451 "2014-04-24T18:56:27Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I wonder how happy that reporter was when he heard the magical words “I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro…”. No way that sentence was going to end in something that didn’t make the papers. I want to know what all the _other_ things Bundy knew about the Negro were…just giving us the last one(s) leaves me unsatisfied. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/452 "2014-04-24T19:01:21Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I want to know what all the _other_ things Bundy knew about the Negro were…just giving us the last one(s) leaves me unsatisfied. I saw the full quote somewhere earlier. The “other thing” was pretty innocuous, something like “they have more rights now then fifty years ago”. He probably should’ve stopped there. ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/453 "2014-04-24T19:03:48Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I just scoured the Fox News main page and subpages looking in vain for any mention of Bundy or his courageous struggle against tyranny. It’s almost like he never existed! > > In the meantime we can read about Ashley Tisdale’s wardrobe malfunction and the new hip Ronald McDonald, though. Fair and balanced!!! ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/454 "2014-04-24T19:06:13Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > It appears that [even Bundy is trying to distance himself](https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/posts/631224826954329?stream_ref=10) from Bundy’s comments. > > _There are new rumors going around about Cliven. We all know that with the media, words are taken out of context, meanings are twisted, and they can take anything and turn it into what they want it to be. Cliven is a good man, he loves all people, he is not a racist man. He wants what is best for everyone._ He’s not a racist man, he just wonders whether those negroes were better off as slaves. :rolleyes: Jesus, what is wrong with these people? And that right-wing correspondent upthread. What the hell are people like that doing on the news?! Seriously, someone help me out here! I’m totally lost! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/455 "2014-04-24T19:22:29Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Seriously, someone help me out here! I’m totally lost! In Cliven’s case, it ain’t his fault, he is just carrying on the family tradition that goes back to the eighteenth century. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/456 "2014-04-24T19:27:25Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > In Cliven’s case, it ain’t his fault, he is just carrying on the family tradition that goes back to the eighteenth century. Seriously, the Feds only started making it illegal to own black people in 1865. If they really meant it, they would’ve done something about it way earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/457 "2014-04-24T19:36:41Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > In Cliven’s case, it ain’t his fault, he is just carrying on the family tradition that goes back to the eighteenth century. Oh, I understand that people like Cliven exist. It’s just… the news media? Defending that? What the hell has gone wrong? Any sensible person can see in an instant that Cliven is not just an anti-government fanatic and criminal, but a racist. Sure, if your entire worldview is “Fuck the police” or you spend an awful lot of time peddling to people who think that way, then you could defend the first two parts, but who the hell defends a racist like that? And why are they in a position of media influence? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/458 "2014-04-24T19:47:47Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > …but who the hell defends a racist like that? Someone trying to save face, for one. If Bundy’s racial remarks had come out on day 1 of the standoff, instead of day 16 or so, there’d be much less of a need to defend him. But after 16 days, there’s been a lot of investment in Bundy, and rationalizing his remarks feels a lot better than admitting you were backing a racist. The Senators have no choice but to repudiate him, but no one elected Sean Hannity or Dana Loesch, and no one runs against them. > [@Budget Player Cadet](#): > > And why are they in a position of media influence? Because their viewers are probably experiencing the same need to save face, and want to be reassured. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/459 "2014-04-24T19:47:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [22 right-wing delusions about the Bundy standoff.](http://www.salon.com/2014/04/24/fox_news_worst_cliven_bundy_lies_22_right_wing_delusions_about_the_absurd_standoff/) Here’s my favorite one: > [@](#): > > 1. “Bundy has already paid fees to Nevada County.” Dana Loesch, a frequent guest on Fox, has repeatedly made this peculiar argument. Whatever Bundy might have paid to Nevada County is of no consequence to his federal tax bill. You cannot avoid a federal tax bill by paying fees and taxes to the county. It’s funny because Nevada County is in California; the county seat is Nevada City. The state of Nevada does not have a Nevada County (or a Nevada City). Bunkerville is located in Clark County. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/460 "2014-04-24T19:49:29Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Someone trying to save face, for one. If Bundy’s racial remarks had come out on day 1 of the standoff, instead of day 16 or so, there’d be much less of a need to defend him. But after 16 days, there’s been a lot of investment in Bundy, and rationalizing his remarks feels a lot better than admitting you were backing a racist. The Senators have no choice but to repudiate him, but no one elected Sean Hannity or Dana Loesch, and no one runs against them. > > Because their viewers are probably experiencing the same need to save face, and want to be reassured. An excellent analysis; well done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993.md?page=24)