# The federal government made a serious mistake by caving in to Cliven Bundy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 13, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993 "2014-04-13T05:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/541 "2014-05-30T03:39:34Z")
How about Muhammar Gaddafi ? [QUOTE=Snowboarder Bo] Now he’s snubbing the local governments as well as the feds. I say that this is a situation that, if it actually exists, cannot be allowed to continue and should be ended as peacefully as possible but knowing that ending it is the priority and any other outcome is unacceptable. [/QUOTE] Yeah, this is starting to sound very Whiskey Rebellion. What I wonder is : how do these chucklefucks support themselves and their friendly little hippie commune ? They’ve got to eat and can’t live on welfare beef alone. They must have pick-up trucks to fuel too, Coors Light to crunch and so on. Ammunition bills. Lots of overheads underfoot. Redneck Militiaing can’t pay all that well, and they’ve been over there for a month or so now, right ? So… what gives ? Who pays for them ? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/542 "2014-05-30T04:44:44Z")
Lawlessness out West? You don’t say. Why is Cliven bundy such a priority now, presenting an unacceptable situation that the government cannot allow to continue, but our porous border is not? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/543 "2014-05-30T04:53:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Lawlessness out West? You don’t say. Why is Cliven bundy such a priority now, presenting an unacceptable situation that the government cannot allow to continue, but our porous border is not? Because Cliven Bundy said so: > **[Bundy Has A Surprisingly Nice Take On Undocumented Immigrants](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/clive-bundy-the-spanish-immigrants)** > > More video has emerged of Cliven Bundy’s slavery remarks, and they now... > [@](#): > > ``` > Now, let me talk about the Spanish people. You know, I understand that they come over here against our Constitution and cross our borders. But they’re here and they’re people -- and I’ve worked side by side a lot of them. > > Don’t tell me they don’t work, and don’t tell me they don’t pay taxes. And don’t tell me they don’t have better family structures than most of us white people. When you see those Mexican families, they’re together, they picnic together, they’re spending their time together, and I’ll tell you in my way of thinking they’re awful nice people. And we need to have those people join us and be with us not, not come to our party. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/544 "2014-05-30T04:58:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Lawlessness out West? You don’t say. Why is Cliven bundy such a priority now, presenting an unacceptable situation that the government cannot allow to continue, but our porous border is not? Thanks to recent improvements in technology, the federal government of the United States is able to address as many as \*three \*things at once these days. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/545 "2014-05-30T05:12:02Z")
Yet they choose not to. Prosecutorial discretion is the reality and there really was no urgent national need served by using force in the Bundy situation. For the same reason we don’t put troops on the border. We need armed agents on public lands just as little. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/546 "2014-05-30T05:12:48Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > What I wonder is : how do these chucklefucks support themselves … Who pays for them ? Clearly the Cabal of Illegal Aliens is providing them with the support they need, so as to divert attention from our fragile borders (which also keeps a cohort of militiamen out of the way, where they cannot ride up and down the length of the fence to fend off the evil horde). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/547 "2014-05-30T05:49:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yet they choose not to. Prosecutorial discretion is the reality and there really was no urgent national need served by using force in the Bundy situation. For the same reason we don’t put troops on the border. If you say so. I’m still not quite clear on what this non-sequitur of yours has to do with anything or what brought it onto the table, other than possibly as a “Look ! Behind you ! A three-headed monkey !”. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/548 "2014-05-30T06:15:04Z")
It means that caving to Cliven Bundy is not a threat to the republic, or even the federal government’s regulatory power. The administration picked the wrong battle. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/549 "2014-05-30T06:37:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The administration picked the wrong battle. This statement is vacuous, ignores basic facts and is so massively wrong that I’m shocked it hasn’t collapsed the whole board through the sheer weight of its stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/550 "2014-05-30T07:04:09Z")
A funny thing to say, given that the administration lost the battle, which by definition means they were dumb to do it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/551 "2014-05-30T07:23:12Z")
Seems to me that Bob Lee won quite a lot of battles, but, in the end, not the ones that counted. A TD is not the game. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/552 "2014-06-09T06:49:04Z")
What happens when you invite a bunch of wackos to come down to your place and point guns at the Feds? > [@"\[Review-Journal](#): > > ([Las Vegas News | Breaking News & Headlines | Las Vegas Review-Journal](http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/shooters-metro-ambush-left-five-dead-spoke-white-supremacy-and-desire-kill-police))"]Two Las Vegas police officers were killed Sunday in what appears to be a politically motivated ambush in a pizza restaurant that spilled over to a nearby Wal-Mart, where the two shooters committed suicide after killing a woman in the store. > … > > (The male shooter had said) he had been kicked off Cliven Bundy’s ranch 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas while people from throughout the U.S. gathered there in protest of a Bureau of Land Management roundup of Bundy’s cattle. Reached Sunday, the rancher’s wife, Carol Bundy, said the shooting and the April standoff against the federal government were not linked. “I have not seen or heard anything from the militia and others who have came to our ranch that would, in any way, make me think they had an intent to kill or harm anyone,” Carol Bundy said. Yeah, lady, I am believing you. They were all just nice guys with lots of guns. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/553 "2014-06-09T12:37:46Z")
Don’t worry. From the comment section I learned that this is another false flag operation designed to distract attention from Benghazi. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2014, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/554 "2014-06-09T13:14:13Z")
Man, there are so many of those going on. Are there \*any \*true flag operations left, or is everybody just pretending to work for everyone else and bungling everything on purpose ? Actually that would make for an amusing short story. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/555 "2014-06-11T03:08:06Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Man, there are so many of those going on. Are there \*any \*true flag operations left, or is everybody just pretending to work for everyone else and bungling everything on purpose ? > > Actually that would make for an amusing short story. I would say [this get us halfway there](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/06/10/alex-jones-is-a-false-flag-hear-me-out/): \*They griped and moaned that this new crowd, who kept going on about how everything in the news was a “false flag,” and that no one was actually hurt at the Boston Marathon bombings, or at UCSB, or at Sandy Hook — that it was all so obviously off-the-charts nutty, it was giving the conspiracy field a bad name. And then it dawned on me. My God, even a second-grader could see it! Who was responsible for destroying the conspiracy field? Who was turning the world of speculative investigation, UFOlogy, cryptozoology, and so many other promising fields of inquiry into one, big, false flag joke? As the thought took hold in my brain, I could see it plain as day. Born in 1974, the year after MK Ultra “ended” — at least officially — and in Dallas, where the mother of all conspiracies was born 11 years earlier. Of course! Who was responsible for turning an entire segment of the population into a drooling, brain-addled mob just ripe for government manipulation and exploitation? It was there under our noses all the time. Alex Jones is a false flag. Probably controlled by HAARP antennas and fluoridation. Let’s see him prove he isn’t.\* or, ask and you shall receive, sort of ---
**Author:** ![Calatin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@Calatin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calatin)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/556 "2014-06-11T18:55:36Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Man, there are so many of those going on. Are there \*any \*true flag operations left, or is everybody just pretending to work for everyone else and bungling everything on purpose ? Waitaminute. Is [anyone here](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-osRpf2U96MQ/TkMI59kF-gI/AAAAAAAAACs/fsdMZJjd9dQ/s1600/FarSideSheep.png) a true flag operation? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/557 "2014-06-11T19:31:50Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Granted, I know Christians love the story of the prodigal son, but I always felt for and identified with the good son in the story who’d done his duty all his life, made sacrifices his whole life and then finds his idiot, irresponsible brother getting all the praise. The prodigal son didn’t get anything, he already received and frittered away his inheritance. The father celebrated because his son returned to him but the “good son” was going to inherit everything because the prodigal son had already received his inheritance. I blame the father for giving the younger son his inheritance so early. > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I’m not sure at what level this decision was made, but I give major props to the Federal officials involved as it shows they have learned how to respond to things rationally. > [@adaher](#): > > Lawlessness out West? You don’t say. Why is Cliven bundy such a priority now, presenting an unacceptable situation that the government cannot allow to continue, but our porous border is not? Cliven Bundy isn’t just breaking the law, he is defying the law. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Because Cliven Bundy said so: > > [Bundy Has A Surprisingly Nice Take On Undocumented Immigrants - TPM – Talking Points Memo](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/clive-bundy-the-spanish-immigrants) Other than the use of a double negative, I don’t see how his description of the Hispanic immigrants that he has encountered is bad or wrong. > [@adaher](#): > > A funny thing to say, given that the administration lost the battle, which by definition means they were dumb to do it in the first place. Right, because the administration could have foreseen hundreds of right wing whackos converging on the bundy ranch to defend cattle with force of arms against the federal government. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/558 "2014-06-11T21:34:34Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The prodigal son didn’t get anything, he already received and frittered away his inheritance. The father celebrated because his son returned to him but the “good son” was going to inherit everything because the prodigal son had already received his inheritance. > > I blame the father for giving the younger son his inheritance so early. Hey, I never knew that either. You fought a little ignorance today. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/559 "2014-06-11T21:55:56Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Cliven Bundy isn’t just breaking the law, he is defying the law. Given that he rejects the validity of the US government, which we could infer means he does not perform any of his civic duties, I think it would be reasonable to declare that he is not a citizen. Perhaps we could have him deported. He could live in Las Vegas International Airport, like that character in _the Terminal_, until we could find a country willing to take him. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/560 "2014-06-12T14:00:42Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Given that he rejects the validity of the US government, which we could infer means he does not perform any of his civic duties, I think it would be reasonable to declare that he is not a citizen. > > Perhaps we could have him deported. He could live in Las Vegas International Airport, like that character in _the Terminal_, until we could find a country willing to take him. In addition to being grossly immoral, and supporting Bundy’s movement (by showing the federal government to be arbitrary and tyrannical), this would be [unconstitutional.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afroyim_v._Rusk) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993.md?page=29)