# The federal government made a serious mistake by caving in to Cliven Bundy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 13, 2014, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993 "2014-04-13T05:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/561 "2014-07-10T16:43:11Z")
Well, [the Southern Poverty Law Center released a report today](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/report-nevada-ranch-battle-spurs-radical-right) that backs up my assertions in the OP: the Cliven Bundy thing has bolstered the crazy right wing. [ > [@](#): > > The victory a Nevada rancher claimed in a government standoff with armed militiamen has served to embolden right-wing extremists and conspiracy theorists across the country, an organization that tracks hate groups said in a new report Thursday. > > Cliven Bundy’s faceoff with the Bureau of Land Management agents and Las Vegas police at his ranch in southern Nevada in April has “invigorated” an extremist movement that has exploded since President Barack Obama was elected, growing from 150 groups in 2008 to more than 1,000 last year, the Southern Poverty Law Center said. ]([http://bigstory.ap.org/article/report-nevada-ranch-battle-spurs-radical-right](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/report-nevada-ranch-battle-spurs-radical-right))[ > [@](#): > > "The Bundy ranch standoff wasn’t a spontaneous response to Cliven Bundy’s predicament but rather a well-organized, military-type action that reflects the potential for violence from a much larger and more dangerous movement,” said Mark Potok, senior fellow in the SPLC’s Intelligence Project. “This incident may have faded from public view, but if our government doesn’t pay attention, we will be caught off guard as much as the Bureau of Land Management was that day.” ]([http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/news/splc-report-bundy-ranch-standoff-was-highly-coordinated-reflecting-threat-of-large](http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/news/splc-report-bundy-ranch-standoff-was-highly-coordinated-reflecting-threat-of-large)) Here’s a link to the actual report: [War in the West: The Bundy Ranch Standoff and the American Radical Right. > [@](#): > > The Bundy standoff has invigorated an extremist movement that exploded when President Obama was elected, going from some 150 groups in 2008 to more than 1,000 last year. Though the movement has waxed and waned over the last three decades, antigovernment extremists have long pushed, most fiercely during Democratic administrations, rabid conspiracy theories about a nefarious New World Order, a socialist, gun-grabbing federal government and the evils of federal law enforcement. Today’s disputes with federal authority, many long simmering, are an extension of the earlier right-wing Sagebrush Rebellion, Wise Use and “county supremacy” movements. > > Since 2009, there have been 17 shooting incidents between antigovernment extremists and law enforcement. In 2010, a father-and-son team of sovereign citizens, who believe that the law doesn’t apply to them, executed two Arkansas police officers during a traffic stop, and a California extremist shot and injured two state troopers. Another extremist in Texas tried to kill two sheriff’s deputies. Similar incidents have happened since, some ending in loss of life. > > For those harboring deep hatred of the federal government, the BLM pullout was seen as a dramatic victory, one instance where the armed radicals of the right stared through their own gunsights at the gun barrels of law enforcement officials and won. Rather than being condemned, their actions garnered the support of numerous politicians, including the governor of Nevada and commentators like Fox News’ Sean Hannity — a truly repulsive spectacle. This pandering to the far right by both politicians and media figures ended in a hurry, however, when Bundy engaged in racist blather about “the Negro.” Racism was crossing a line, apparently, but the calls from the ranch for revolution and outright defiance of federal law enforcement seemed to be just fine with the Hannitys of the world. > > The fallout from the BLM stand down is very troubling: an even more emboldened antigovernment movement. Just in the months since the Bundy “victory,” tense standoffs between the BLM and antigovernment activists have taken place across the West — in Idaho, New Mexico, Texas and Utah. The scariest incident happened in Utah, where two men pointed a handgun at a BLM worker in a marked federal vehicle while holding up a sign that said, “You need to die.” > > Although these situations have not yet led to violence, a recent encounter with two Bundy supporters ended with three dead. ]([http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/War-in-the-West-The-Bundy-Ranch-Standoff-and-the-American-Radical-Right](http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/War-in-the-West-The-Bundy-Ranch-Standoff-and-the-American-Radical-Right)) Law Enforcement needs to move quickly and correctly to arrest and charge people who committed crimes in April during the Bundy debacle; delays only strengthen the position of the crazies. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/562 "2014-07-10T17:22:17Z")
Are they still hanging out there in the Nevada Summer heat? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/563 "2014-07-10T19:13:17Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The prodigal son didn’t get anything, he already received and frittered away his inheritance. . . . I blame the father for giving the younger son his inheritance so early. . . . So he’s going to be working for his father, then his brother, for the rest of his life as a poor relation? Ouch. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/564 "2014-07-10T19:23:04Z")
Just once I’d like to see this thread revived with _good_ news, like “Cliven Bundy arrested today for being a lying, thieving jackass-His cattle has been confiscated and will be used to feed the poor at food banks across the state.” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/565 "2014-07-10T19:45:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Just once I’d like to see this thread revived with _good_ news, like “Cliven Bundy arrested today for being a lying, thieving jackass-His cattle has been confiscated and will be used to feed the poor at food banks across the state.” When I have good news to share, I will do so. In the meantime, we’ll have to make do with updates as news comes in. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/566 "2014-07-10T19:47:05Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Are they still hanging out there in the Nevada Summer heat? Local reports indicate that the vast majority of the militia types who came to Bunkerville in April are gone, but not all of them have left the area. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/567 "2014-07-10T19:55:18Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > When I have good news to share, I will do so. In the meantime, we’ll have to make do with updates as news comes in. I know-This wasn’t a case of shooting the messenger. Just wishful thinking. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/568 "2014-07-12T02:04:06Z")
What’s amusing to me is how when liberals & progressives have a decently attended rally or something these militia type conservatives always whine: that’s because they don’t have jobs! But when the militia types camp out for months it’s um… freedom! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/569 "2014-07-12T16:19:38Z")
On a tangentially related note, the [sad story of the guy put in jail for collecting rainwater](http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/blog/2012/08/12/water-water-everywhere-and-not-a-drop-to-think-gary-harrington-oregon-water-rights-and-freedom) is making the rounds of the hard-right-_ **freedumb** _ crowd of late. Just one more guy, a lot like Bundy, oppressed by the evil government (but at the state level this time). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/570 "2014-07-12T19:22:45Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Well, [the Southern Poverty Law Center released a report today](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/report-nevada-ranch-battle-spurs-radical-right) that backs up my assertions in the OP: the Cliven Bundy thing has bolstered the crazy right wing. I think you are jumping the gun a little bit. The Bundy thing started early 2014 if I’m not mistaken. You can’t really pin a 6 year trend on that, unless 850 militia groups popped up between then and now. It’s more likely mixing cause and consequence : right-wing domestic fuckwittery has been on the rise for a while (for no doubt a bunch of astoundingly cogent and totally not racist reasons), and the Cliven Bundy Ranch Extravaganza was the (up to now) apex manifestation of that _Zeitgeist_. I’m not really seeing the bolstering part. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/571 "2014-07-12T20:30:26Z")
The Bundy thing started years ago. It just wasn’t front page news until this year. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/572 "2014-07-12T21:59:50Z")
The important part happened in April. When the evil BLM decided not to have a Ruby Ridge/Waco scene. That made all the proud sociopaths pump their fists and brag that they scared the monster gummint off with their guns. From that point on, it can only get worse, as more crazy people try to make _their_ stand, emboldened by the victory in Bunkerville. Unless, of course, some of the militia dudes start getting picked off for illegal behavior like using a public roadway as a sniper nest. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/573 "2014-07-13T04:03:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Bundy thing started years ago. It just wasn’t front page news until this year. Yeah but there wasn’t a bunch of camouflaged whackadoodles on his ranch for all these years, was there ? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/574 "2014-07-15T00:51:33Z")
It appears that [one of Cliven Bundy’s sons is a burglar](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/lance-bundy-warrant-weapons-charges) – looks like taking stuff runs in the family. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/575 "2014-07-16T22:19:37Z")
No no. Not thief and burglar. Libertarian. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/576 "2016-01-13T02:47:28Z")
Bumping this thread to say “I _told_ y’all that [something like this](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_RANCHING_STANDOFF_THINGS_TO_KNOW?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) would happen.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/577 "2016-01-13T13:50:33Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Bumping this thread to say “I _told_ y’all that [something like this](http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_RANCHING_STANDOFF_THINGS_TO_KNOW?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) would happen.” > [@](#): > > The group seized buildings at Malheur National Wildlife Refuge on Jan. 2 following a peaceful rally in support of two Oregon ranchers facing additional prison time for convictions of arson. Perhaps they should have occupied Wall Street. Then it would be a perfectly acceptable tactic, right? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/578 "2016-01-13T14:09:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Perhaps they should have occupied Wall Street. Then it would be a perfectly acceptable tactic, right? Are you implying that a park and a Federal building should be considered to possess the same characteristics with respect to whether they are considered to be part of the public square? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/579 "2016-01-13T14:31:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Perhaps they should have occupied Wall Street. Then it would be a perfectly acceptable tactic, right? Not with assault rifles, no. Is that what you meant? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993/580 "2016-01-13T14:34:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Perhaps they should have occupied Wall Street. Then it would be a perfectly acceptable tactic, right? I don’t remember OWS carrying firearms and threatening to kill (or die). But in any event, I don’t see this as an “I told you so” moment. The last time the right wing nutjob movement good a boost was when the feds got a little heavy handed at Waco and the Weaver standoff. So it looks like they’re damned if they do, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-federal-government-made-a-serious-mistake-by-caving-in-to-cliven-bundy/685993.md?page=30)