# The "feminization" of America: is Howard Stern on to something? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 26, 2001, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846 "2001-09-26T02:25:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/41 "2001-09-27T01:33:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Boxcar \* > **…** Excellent post. I agree with pretty much everything you said. And I do think we’re highly feminized/liberalized, and this is a bad thing. Kids might get emotional damage if they’re picked last for teams and all that is just a bunch of liberal over-emotional bullshit. We’ve become so sensitive and so PC to everything that it makes me want to puke. If you put the current generation to the test of previous generations - say, a great war of some type - you’d get a whole lot of people crying and wanting a time out. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/42 "2001-09-27T02:13:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Since when did those who call upon America to “sack up” neccesarily become Mullah Omar-level misogynists? I’m simply bringing up the point that war is ugly. Maybe were not ready for it. I would say that we were not ready for war at all back in WWII. We are much more prepared today and weapons matter alot more than emotional scars. > [@](#): > > Those stereotypes aren’t true, but they force people out of traditional gender roles. Men have facial hair and fart. They like to shoot at things. There are exceptions to that. But I want to put Bubba and his beer-chuggin’ buddies on those front lines. The women and all the feminine boys at home would feel safer knowing they are out there being heroes. Once traditional gender roles are of no use they will be discarded much like any other useless thing. Personally I would want to see professional soldiers fighting on the front line. People who want to embrace a stereotype would only get in the way. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/43 "2001-09-27T02:20:33Z")
You know what? I think you are right. Men should all join the army at the age of 18 and women (to be “feminine”) should just stay at home and have babies. Gender roles will all be in order and we won’t be “soft”. As a matter of fact, I think we should even go away from liberalism too. Kids are being pampered these days. Fathers should beat their kids to make 'em tough. Up with patriarchy! ---
**Author:** ![Vinnie\_Virginslayer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/53a042/32.png) [@Vinnie\_Virginslayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vinnie_Virginslayer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/44 "2001-09-27T02:44:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AHunter3 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Could we please knock it off with the “tough guy America = Taliban” arguments? What a cheap shot THAT is. I see. Those that question whether or not America is “soft” would like to see women walk 10 steps behind men. :rolleyes: > > It is not a “cheap shot”. I think it’s nothing’ but net. I do indeed believe that _the type of person who believes we are “soft” in comparison with our attackers are indeed likely to prefer that our women “stay in their place”._ And quit “feminizing” America. \*\* I’d sure love to see the statistics you have to back THAT up! ---
**Author:** ![Vinnie\_Virginslayer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/53a042/32.png) [@Vinnie\_Virginslayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vinnie_Virginslayer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/45 "2001-09-27T02:46:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LaurAnge \* > \*\*You know what? > > I think you are right. Men should all join the army at the age of 18 and women (to be “feminine”) should just stay at home and have babies. Gender roles will all be in order and we won’t be “soft”. > > As a matter of fact, I think we should even go away from liberalism too. Kids are being pampered these days. Fathers should beat their kids to make 'em tough. > > Up with patriarchy! \*\* Glad to see you got the point of the argument, Laur! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/46 "2001-09-27T02:55:27Z")
Glad to see you correctly figured out to whom she was responding, **Vinnie!** :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_The\_Bold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@Dale\_The\_Bold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_The_Bold)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/47 "2001-09-27T03:37:03Z")
I always thought “patriarch” meant a wise old grandpa type who gives advice. Should I update my dictionary to read “abusive father?” ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/48 "2001-09-27T03:39:54Z")
Dale the Bold: > [@](#): > > Men are being taught to be sensitive, talk about their feelings, accept alternative lifestyles, etc. The result is a population that consists of a lot of half-assed male/female hybrids. A male today that is the embodiment of masculinity is frowned upon as a stupid insensitive oaf who is bent on the destruction of others. Excuse me! I’m a **FULLY ASSED** sensitive sissy guy who definitely frowns upon embodiments of masculinity for being stupid insensitive oafs bent on the destruction of others. Nothing half-assed about me! If it becomes necessary and important for me to engage in personal violence in order to protect my lifestyle–and attacks upon my nation are indeed a threat to that–then I am willing and able to pick up a firearm and shoot holes in people. But take your machismo and your attitudes towards sissy sensitive guys and go impale yourself on them. OH…and patriarchy hurls chunks. I am entirely with my feminist sisters on that. If you want to belch and fart, go ahead, no one is stopping you. But spare me the celebrations of conventional masculinity. ---
**Author:** ![incitatus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@incitatus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/incitatus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/49 "2001-09-27T04:02:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > I’m not interested in introducing unnecessary pain to toughen anyone up. What I’m saying is that you cannot remove all pain from life. In that case, I agree with you 100%. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > I’m confident that we could find plenty of people willing to fight. What i’m not confident about is that the general population is willing to see American soldiers and foreign civilians getting killed. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, is it? We should always be extremely reluctant to send soldiers to war. I believe that if Americans perceive the cause to be just, we’ll be able to set aside our revulsion and rally behind the troops. But we _should_ be shocked and horrified by what we see. Isn’t there another camp that thinks America is too desensitized to violence because of the media? So are we too soft or are we too violent? I guess it depends on who you ask… ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/50 "2001-09-27T04:37:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by incitatus \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > > I’m not interested in introducing unnecessary pain to toughen anyone up. What I’m saying is that you cannot remove all pain from life. > > In that case, I agree with you 100%. \*\* What gave you the impression that I wanted to rub salt in people’s wounds? > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > > I’m confident that we could find plenty of people willing to fight. What i’m not confident about is that the general population is willing to see American soldiers and foreign civilians getting killed. > > Which is not necessarily a bad thing, is it? \*\* Yes it is a bad thing. Looking back at the last 20 years is it any wonder terrorist haven’t been afraid to strike the United States? 241 US Marines were killed in Lebanon and we didn’t take action, the USS Cole was bombed and we didn’t take any effective action, and the WTC was bombed for the first time and we didn’t do anything about it. They didn’t think that we as a country have the guts to do what it takes to stop them. I hope that after what happened on 9/11 that America does reach down and find the guts to do what needs to be done. I do think a lack of serious problems for many Americans has made us soft. But I am also optimistic that Americans will be able to find the resolve to get through whatever has to be done. > [@](#): > > \*\* > We should always be extremely reluctant to send soldiers to war. I believe that if Americans perceive the cause to be just, we’ll be able to set aside our revulsion and rally behind the troops. But we _should_ be shocked and horrified by what we see. \*\* We should not always be extremely reluctant to send soldiers to war. Yes we do need to make sure that we actually want to fight the war and we need to make sure we have some sort of strategy. We weren’t reluctant to declare war on Japan. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Isn’t there another camp that thinks America is too desensitized to violence because of the media? So are we too soft or are we too violent? I guess it depends on who you ask… \*\* Takes all kinds I guess. 🙂 Marc ---
**Author:** ![Ace\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Ace\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace_Face)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/51 "2001-09-27T04:41:33Z")
Does anyone else find it ironic that Stern – a man with long curly hair, who has appeared in drag and who talks about the inadequacy of his penis – should be lecturing people about “feminization?” ---
**Author:** ![Boxcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Boxcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boxcar)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/52 "2001-09-27T05:18:34Z")
**Magdalene,** in my posts I am working from the Marilyn French theory of Feminism and Patriarchy as provided by AHunter3. > [@](#): > > Patriarchy, which in all its forms requires some kind of self-sacrifice, denial, or repression in the name of some higher good which is rarely (if ever) achieved on earth, stresses nobility, superiority, and victory, the satisfaction of a final triumph. Feminism requires the entire self in the name of present well-being, and stresses integrity, community, and the jouissance of present experience. **LaurAnge,** these definitions do not define biological gender (ie all women are feminists, all males are patriarchal) but rather a mindset that members of either sex can have. The USA is basically a feminist country at its heart. We strive for individuality and encourage everyone to do what will bring them the greatest sense of accomplishment or pleasure. This is not a bad thing. We should be kind and sensitive and understanding of others and tolerant of other’s views. However, the patriarchal, masculine, agressive, competitive qualities that French and others of her ilk seem to disparage are the very ones that allow us to protect our freedom to live as feminists. Everything from business to the military are organized along what French calls (and denigrates) patriarchal qualities – nobility, service to a higher goal, competition, and triumph. With the coming strife, I think the patriarchal qualities will come back into fashion. Even those who are most individual, compassionate and sensitive among us understand that there comes a time when you have to answer a call to service a higher or noble goal. That the feminist ideal of sensitivity and non-judgementalism must be replaced by the firm belief that right is right, wrong is wrong, and that furry blue things from Alpha Centauri really are furry blue things from Alpha Centauri. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_The\_Bold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@Dale\_The\_Bold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_The_Bold)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/53 "2001-09-27T06:23:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AHunter3 \* > \*\*Excuse me! I’m a **FULLY ASSED** sensitive sissy guy who definitely frowns upon embodiments of masculinity for being stupid insensitive oafs bent on the destruction of others. Nothing half-assed about me! > > If it becomes necessary and important for me to engage in personal violence in order to protect my lifestyle–and attacks upon my nation are indeed a threat to that–then I am willing and able to pick up a firearm and shoot holes in people. > > But take your machismo and your attitudes towards sissy sensitive guys and go impale yourself on them. > > OH…and patriarchy hurls chunks. I am entirely with my feminist sisters on that. If you want to belch and fart, go ahead, no one is stopping you. But spare me the celebrations of conventional masculinity.\*\* Well if you define masculinity like that, I’d be a certified sissy too. Tear down your defenses because we are saying the same thing. Masculinity isn’t how much of an ass you can be (though you profess to be “fully assed”), but it is getting too easily defined as such. Look at how many flames my post brought on just because people so bent on finding something to throw a fit over are looking for something that isn’t there. It’s so ironic that you use such threatening remarks regarding the issue of masculinity. To think of being masculine or feminine as a bad thing is to misunderstand their definitions. My post was meant to point out that the approach to raising boys is becoming more similar to the way that girls have traditionally been raised. I sbeing emotional being a sissy? Of course not, LOL. However, I think part of the problem is that all kids are being raised with little discipline (an issue for a separate thread). To clarify the most basic point, it’s hard for a man to be masculine because of the stereotypes that make “masculine” seem like a bad word. If a man sees a need to fight, he automatically gets these labels attached to him. I think we can all see how that happens now, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/54 "2001-09-27T06:25:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Boxcar \* > \*\* > > The USA is basically a feminist country at its heart. We strive for individuality and encourage everyone to do what will bring them the greatest sense of accomplishment or pleasure. This is not a bad thing. \*\* We’re a feminist nation at our heart? I guess that would make Locke, Rousseau, and the founding fathers such as Jefferson feminist, right? It was after all their ideals of individual liberties and the opporunity for the pursuit of whatever makes us happy that laid the foundations of our nation. If anything the idea of women being equal to men has its foundations in the writing of Locke and others like him. Feminism is an awfully big umbrella that covers all sorts of people with different ideals. I’ve seen some feminist organizations that are closer to me on the political spectrum then they are with now. I can’t characterize all feminist as being those who strive for individuality. Not when so many of them want state sponsered child care and government programs to provide women with higher paying jobs. That doesn’t sound like individuality to me but that’s just my opinion. Marc ---
**Author:** ![HairyPotter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@HairyPotter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HairyPotter)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/55 "2001-09-27T06:56:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Vinnie Virginslayer \* > \*\*From [marksfriggin.com](http://marksfriggin.com) recap of the Stern show today: > > _ **Text of Howard Stern happily deleted.** _ > > That said, is Howard on to something? Is America too “soft” and too PC to do some of the rather uncomfortable things we might have to do to win the war against terrorism? > > _ **Text deleted.** _ > > Is American too “soft” to fight back? \*\* To anyone who suggests that “feminization” is “soft” I suggest (only rhetorically) that you try to harm a child in the presence of their Mother. The belief that feminism inhibits the ability of our society to “win the war against terrorism” is a very misguided prejudice. Feminism equates only to people wanting equal opportunities, regardless of gender. I don’t believe that “feminization” impacts the desire to protect oneself or one’s society. It may, however, impact one’s desire to come out shooting first and ask questions later. I believe that the “fighting violence with exposure to violence” amounts to pouring gasoline on a fire; it will have a dramatic effect on the problem, but not the desired effect. Encouraging individuals to avoid violence, when possible, discourages terrorism. I beleive that de-feminizing America may actually increase the likelihood of terrorism from within our society. Patriarchal, “manly” traits promote the suppression of people, which fits nicely with the goals of terrorists. We can promote feminism in our society without letting our guard down against terrorism. Feminism does not affect anyone’s willingness to defend themselves or their society. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/56 "2001-09-27T12:06:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Boxcar \* > \*\* > **LaurAnge,** these definitions do not define biological gender (ie all women are feminists, all males are patriarchal) but rather a mindset that members of either sex can have. > > The USA is basically a feminist country at its heart. We strive for individuality and encourage everyone to do what will bring them the greatest sense of accomplishment or pleasure. This is not a bad thing. We should be kind and sensitive and understanding of others and tolerant of other’s views.\*\* **Feminism** (from [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com)): fem·i·nism (fm-nzm) n. 1. Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes. 2. The movement organized around this belief. Look up your terms before you use them. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/57 "2001-09-27T13:00:09Z")
Feminism is the radical notion that women are people. “I myself have never been able to precicely define what feminism is. I only know people call me a feminist whenever I express sentaments that distigush me from a doormat or a prostitute.” Rebecca West ---
**Author:** ![Boxcar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Boxcar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boxcar)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/58 "2001-09-27T16:18:28Z")
**LaurAnge,** are my arguments off-base regarding feminist theory? Where? How do they not fit into the definition of Feminism? From the critique of [Feminism and Politics, Edited by Anne Phillips, Open University Press 1998](http://www.soc.surrey.ac.uk/~scs1sp/3.4/hogbin.html) (emphasis mine): > [@](#): > > The final section on citizenship revisits some of the earlier debates as writers try to locate a position for ‘women’ in a revitalized democratic state. **There are arguments for and against the promotion of values traditionally assigned to women in their role in the private/domestic sphere as a basis for citizenship (Elshtain; Dietz).** It is also suggested that, as well as new values, the role of citizens must change. The consultative practices of feminist groups should serve as a model for a participative democracy in which citizens are not merely represented but involved in decision making. The state should take responsibility for encouraging the formation of interest groups and supplying information to individuals and groups in a way that would enable them to make informed decisions about policy (Dietz; Young). From the critique of [Revisioning the Political: Feminist Reconstructions of Traditional Concepts in Western Political Theory. Edited by Nancy J. Hirschmann and Christine Di Stefano. Westview, 1996](http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m0259/4_93/59094325/p1/article.jhtml?term=%2Bfeminist%2Bpolitical%2Btheory): > [@](#): > > Kathleen B. Jones examines authority to illuminate how it can be reframed from a command for obedience to an invitation into a process of persuasion. This view of authority avoids abstractions that legitimate obedience on the basis of claims to so-called neutrality. Her feminist version of authority emphasizes the role of reciprocity and compassion that can emerge by taking account of the concrete differences between the self and others. Christine Di Stefano then pursues the issue of difference and autonomy by critically examining self-sufficiency, replacing it with a concept of autonomy based on relationships. And from the same review, just because they worked in the word patriarchal: > [@](#): > > Nevertheless, the editors have a clear purpose in desiring to offer readers political concepts that avoid patriarchal influences. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/59 "2001-09-27T19:17:01Z")
I assume that I’ll be called an idiot for not understanding your point, **Dale** , as you’ve already determined that any difficulties in understanding are others’ faults and not your own. Nevertheless, I simply do not understand you here: > [@](#): > > If a man sees a need to fight, he automatically gets these labels attached to him. I think we can all see how that happens now, eh? If a man “sees a need” to rape children, we place some labels on him, justifiably. If a man “sees a need” to smack his wife around, we place some well-deserved labels on him, too. Why on Earth does an individual’s personal desires determine the correctness of his actions? I should be happy for the guy who “sees a need” to get into a bar brawl simply because his desire to bash heads is a “valid” masculine urge? Help me out here, man. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_The\_Bold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@Dale\_The\_Bold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_The_Bold)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2001, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846/60 "2001-09-27T19:47:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\*If a man “sees a need” to rape children, we place some labels on him, justifiably. If a man “sees a need” to smack his wife around, we place some well-deserved labels on him, too. > > Why on Earth does an individual’s personal desires determine the correctness of his actions? I should be happy for the guy who “sees a need” to get into a bar brawl simply because his desire to bash heads is a “valid” masculine urge? > > Help me out here, man. \*\* Fair enough. I’m beginning to understand that I need to make my posts longer so I can explain specifically what I’m referring to. I was talking about the idea of our country going to war. When I said “when a man sees a need to fight,” I was talking about defending his country. This can also be applied to a man defending himself or his family (or even his values, such as freedom). The key word being “need.” No one should see a _need_ to pick a fight in a bar (unless it’s needed for defense). This shouldn’t be confused with an idiot with a desire to fight just for the sake of fighting. However, if there is a guy like that who thinks he’s all big and bad and can’t wait to pummel anything that moves, I’d have no trouble sending him to the front lines (this was the point of my original post). The guy who has this attitude is neither valid nor masculine, but if he has such strong desire to fight, we can certainly accommodate him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-feminization-of-america-is-howard-stern-on-to-something/83846.md?page=4)