# The Femmy Boy's Guide to Flirting **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 8, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144 "2018-01-08T15:21:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/361 "2018-01-19T16:15:22Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I suspect that most people who grow beards think that. I suppose you don’t think that way, since you don’t seem to be the person who would want to appear more masculine, that’s why I was wondering. I don’t have a beard, so I can’t say what those with beards think, plus I myself don’t think that, so maybe. But many figures in modern movies and such that are supposedly very masculine have beards. Whether people think masculine guys should have beards, or beards make a guy more masculine is probably a good topic to discuss. > > I would also think the same thing if your picture was you in a work-out shirt with bulging ripped muscles. Maybe I should weave some beads and flowers into it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/362 "2018-01-19T16:19:51Z")
> [@brainstall](#): > > I’m trying to keep up, really, I am, but I’m a bit lost. \*\* AHunter3\*\*, what exactly is it that you do/think/feel/are that makes you a male girl? Missed the edit window. Reanswering… I’m sorry, I don’t understand the question. I mean, I can see a couple dozen things you might be asking instead of just one, and I’m not sure where you got lost. Nothing “makes me” a male girl. I made me a male girl, it’s how I identify. It’s not a set of characteristics on a checklist or something, or a single litmus test. It’s my answer to the fundamental question “who are the people who are like you?” —at a crucial age where most kids identify with people of the same biological sex (which, in turn, is partly because they’re sort of pushed in that direction, and partly because each of them individually has been pushed in either a masculine or feminine direction personality-and-behaviorwise because that’s what’s expected of them on the basis of the biological sex), I, for various reasons that I don’t pretend to 100% understand, identified the girls as the people I belonged with, fit in with, was like. As I got older that became less binary, less either/or, and my attitude was that yeah I had that differerence but it was trivlal, not hugely important or anything, who cares whether a male person was more like one of the girls (or thought of himself that way, or both) than he was like the other boys? Didn’t matter, people can be who they are, etc. Then as a young adult it turned out that it was a difference that really made a Difference: it made sexuality and dating and all that very very complicated for me. > [@](#): > > Perhaps it’s easy for me - I’ve never questioned that I was female, despite not being typically feminine. I’ve never questioned that I was male. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/363 "2018-01-19T16:33:40Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Maybe I should weave some beads and flowers into it 🙂 Then you will just be a hippy! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/364 "2018-01-19T17:14:42Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Nothing “makes me” a male girl. I made me a male girl, it’s how I identify. It’s not a set of characteristics on a checklist or something, or a single litmus test. It’s my answer to the fundamental question “who are the people who are like you?” —at a crucial age where most kids identify with people of the same biological sex (which, in turn, is partly because they’re sort of pushed in that direction, and partly because each of them individually has been pushed in either a masculine or feminine direction personality-and-behaviorwise because that’s what’s expected of them on the basis of the biological sex), I, for various reasons that I don’t pretend to 100% understand, identified the girls as the people I belonged with, fit in with, was like. > > As I got older that became less binary, less either/or, and my attitude was that yeah I had that differerence but it was trivlal, not hugely important or anything, who cares whether a male person was more like one of the girls (or thought of himself that way, or both) than he was like the other boys? Didn’t matter, people can be who they are, etc. > > Then as a young adult it turned out that it was a difference that really made a Difference: it made sexuality and dating and all that very very complicated for me. > > I’ve never questioned that I was male. I’m sorry but all this just smacks of GTFOYS. If you were an ordinary generic hetero man who happened to have been born missing the entire tall, rugged, hansom and charismatic gene-set, you’d have many of the same issues in life which you appear to obsess over. And you’d have to learn to deal and get the fuck over them. It wouldn’t be fair, but neither is your haranguing whoever will listen about your particular nature/nurture luck of the draw. The one thing I’ve never heard you say in all your self-obsessive pitty-blogging is the slightest acknowledgement that there are people who face far greater challenges than you. Many of whom find ways to overcome them and thrive. Or at least just accept and deal without the constant whining. All you’ve done is complain without the slightest inclination or suggestion that you’ve found happiness or contentment with who and what you are. You’ve externalized all the blame without taking any responsibility for your own lot in life. (…If you didn’t have me on ignore yet, you probably do now.) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/365 "2018-01-19T17:15:50Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Then you will just be a hippy! _Fippy_ ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/366 "2018-01-19T17:22:42Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The one thing I’ve never heard you say in all your self-obsessive pitty-blogging is the slightest acknowledgement that there are people who face far greater challenges than you. Many of whom find ways to overcome them and thrive. Or at least just accept and deal without the constant whining. All you’ve done is complain without the slightest inclination or suggestion that you’ve found happiness or contentment with who and what you are. You’ve externalized all the blame without taking any responsibility for your own lot in life. I don’t think this is at all fair. Yes, many people get handed a bad deal and some of those people thrive. That doesn’t make anyone else’s deal not worthy of being discussed, or complained about. Someone else always has it worse. Always. This shouldn’t be a competition. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/367 "2018-01-19T17:29:09Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m sorry but all this just smacks of GTFOYS. > > If you were an ordinary generic hetero man who happened to have been born missing the entire tall, rugged, hansom and charismatic gene-set, you’d have many of the same issues in life which you appear to obsess over. And you’d have to learn to deal and get the fuck over them. It wouldn’t be fair, but neither is your haranguing whoever will listen about your particular nature/nurture luck of the draw. > > The one thing I’ve never heard you say in all your self-obsessive pitty-blogging is the slightest acknowledgement that there are people who face far greater challenges than you. Many of whom find ways to overcome them and thrive. Or at least just accept and deal without the constant whining. All you’ve done is complain without the slightest inclination or suggestion that you’ve found happiness or contentment with who and what you are. You’ve externalized all the blame without taking any responsibility for your own lot in life. > > (…If you didn’t have me on ignore yet, you probably do now.) GTFOYS? Get it The Fuck Out of Your System? Good Time For Our Young Soldiers? Gee That’s Fucking Original You Shithead? Gender Theory Feminist Of Y-Chromosome Specialization? (… I’ve been known to ignore people without putting them on a formal ignore list. It’s usually when I think they’re no longer trying to engage me and are just trying to enrage me or something.) I don’t have that experience of you but you don’t seem to be understanding anything I’ve said very much. Admittedly that’s a rather widespread phenomenon at this point. Still, whether the root of the problem is that I’m not making sense in the first damn place or the material is beyond your power (or willingness) to grasp, either way I don’t have a lot of incentive to keep making the attempt. But I’m actually not intentionally ignoring you. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/368 "2018-01-19T17:30:30Z")
> [@brainstall](#): > > I’m trying to keep up, really, I am, but I’m a bit lost. \*\* AHunter3\*\*, what exactly is it that you do/think/feel/are that makes you a male girl? > > Perhaps it’s easy for me - I’ve never questioned that I was female, despite not being typically feminine. Female to Ahunter3 means biologically female, not gender or gender presenting. It’s strictly biology. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/369 "2018-01-19T17:37:01Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Female to Ahunter3 means biologically female, not gender or gender presenting. It’s strictly biology. In other words- you not questioning you’re a female means you are biologically female. It doesn’t mean- or even connect with- being a girl or a woman or feminine. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/370 "2018-01-19T17:44:10Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > GTFOYS? Get it The Fuck Out of Your System? Good Time For Our Young Soldiers? Gee That’s Fucking Original You Shithead? Gender Theory Feminist Of Y-Chromosome Specialization? I assume it means get the fuck over yourself. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/371 "2018-01-19T17:51:40Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > I don’t think this is at all fair. Yes, many people get handed a bad deal and some of those people thrive. That doesn’t make anyone else’s deal not worthy of being discussed, or complained about. Someone else always has it worse. Always. This shouldn’t be a competition. Not a competition, but a little perspective would be nice. ---
**Author:** ![brainstall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@brainstall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brainstall)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/372 "2018-01-19T17:52:15Z")
Well, then why the need to label yourself as a male girl? What girlish things do you embrace? The bitchy, sneaky, shallow, vain, back-stabbing, helpless, dependent, weak, overly-emotional, manipulative archetype? Or the warrior princess? Are you kind, gentle, sensitive, nurturing, yet strong? Do you like pretty things? Girl encompasses a lot, do you just pick and choose some qualities and decide those are ‘girl’ and that’s who you are? There are times when I’ve been ‘one of the boys’, like riding motorcycles in my twenties when I knew no other women with a bike. We were all just friends with a common interest that wasn’t based on hooking up. I’m very comfortable hanging out with guys, but I’m not a female boy. I’m just me. I’m not everyone’s feminine ideal by a long stretch, but I’m also not terribly special in that. I guess if being a male girl makes you feel better, than it’s not my place to take that away, even if I don’t understand it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/373 "2018-01-19T17:54:18Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Not a competition, but a little perspective would be nice. I’ve never once thought AHunter3 lacked compassion, kindness, generosity, etc. Yes, he has a focus on gender that is more intense than most, but that doesn’t mean he’s otherwise blind to the world. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/374 "2018-01-19T17:58:29Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I don’t have that experience of you but you don’t seem to be understanding anything I’ve said very much. Admittedly that’s a rather widespread phenomenon at this point. Still, whether the root of the problem is that I’m not making sense in the first damn place or the material is beyond your power (or willingness) to grasp, either way I don’t have a lot of incentive to keep making the attempt. \ _Lisa, honey, just because we don’t agree, doesn’t mean we don’t understand._ \ > [@AHunter3](#): > > But I’m actually not intentionally ignoring you. I shall re-double my efforts. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/375 "2018-01-19T18:02:23Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > I’ve never once thought AHunter3 lacked compassion, kindness, generosity, etc. Yes, he has a focus on gender that is more intense than most, but that doesn’t mean he’s otherwise blind to the world. Well, there was that recent missive of, _‘If you’re not with me, you’re against me’_, so… I do agree that off this topic, he appears to be as you describe. However, _on_ this topic, he continues to lead with the victim card. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/376 "2018-01-19T18:04:25Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Female to Ahunter3 means biologically female, not gender or gender presenting. It’s strictly biology. > [@raventhief](#): > > In other words- you not questioning you’re a female means you are biologically female. It doesn’t mean- or even connect with- being a girl or a woman or feminine. 100% correct. Whereas if you ( **brainstall** ) had said “I have never questioned that I was a girl”, that would mean something quite different from “I have never questioned that I was female”. ---
**Author:** ![brainstall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@brainstall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brainstall)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/377 "2018-01-19T18:06:45Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > In other words- you not questioning you’re a female means you are biologically female. It doesn’t mean- or even connect with- being a girl or a woman or feminine. My mistake. I should have written female girl, though it’s been a long time since I’ve felt much like a girl. Age and arthritis catching up to me. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/378 "2018-01-19T18:07:32Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > 100% correct. Whereas if you ( **brainstall** ) had said “I have never questioned that I was a girl”, that would mean something quite different from “I have never questioned that I was female”. And yet, while looking for understanding, you chose not to explain that to someone not familiar with your specialized terminology, instead answering “I have never questioned that i am male.” ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/379 "2018-01-19T18:09:00Z")
> [@brainstall](#): > > My mistake. I should have written female girl, though it’s been a long time since I’ve felt much like a girl. Age and arthritis catching up to me. No worries on my part. I too feel well past girlhood. But i thought i could explain why he answered the way he did, hopefully to forestall any confusion. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/380 "2018-01-19T18:38:26Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > And yet, while looking for understanding, you chose not to explain that to someone not familiar with your specialized terminology, instead answering “I have never questioned that i am male.” Yeah, sorry about that **brainstall**. **raventhief** is right about this as well. > [@brainstall](#): > > My mistake. I should have written female girl, though it’s been a long time since I’ve felt much like a girl. Age and arthritis catching up to me. It might be useful to both of us, in this conversation, for you to think about your identity as “girl” or “woman”. Do you get anything out of that other than what you already obtain from identifying as (biologically) female? Does it have uses and purposes to you, in your own head? How about to other people, to have them perceive you as such? Are some of these perceptions confining and limiting and annoying? Are there any that are beneficial in some fashion, that instead of confining or limiting are somehow useful as tools for enabling accurate perception of who you are? I’m asking these questions of you because the gender portion of my identification probably serves a similar purpose for me in my life. I’m saying “probably” because of course I don’t know for sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144.md?page=20)