# The Femmy Boy's Guide to Flirting **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 8, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144 "2018-01-08T15:21:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Allthegood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@Allthegood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Allthegood)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/101 "2018-01-12T05:28:25Z")
> [@chaika](#): > > If the OP wrote more about incidents from his own life, we would see both the specific experience of the individual and the broader, universal elements. I have read Ahunter3’s book in several incarnations from its first rough draft to the professionally edited version currently being shopped around to publishers, and the funny thing about reading all the above criticism of his writing style is that the book itself consists entirely of incidents from his own life, written in a down to earth, colloquial style. The book was accepted for publication by two publishers. The first publisher went belly up before the book could be published, and the second publisher had him working with a rather ham-handed editor who insisted on removing the first third of the book that explains how Ahunter3 evolved as the special person that he truly is. I agree with Ahunter3 that the first third of the book is a necessary part of the story. It could be trimmed further, but it should not be omitted as the editor wanted to do. I think many of you critics would (will!) really enjoy reading the book, but of course serializing it on the internet would mean no publisher will touch it. All of these blog posts are not so much the work of a special snowflake obsessed with his uniqueness, but the work of someone who has been told he needs to develop a “platform” and a “following” in order to be publishable. That said, I agree that some of his blog posts are a bit wordy and hard to follow – but I assure you that the book in its current form is readable and interesting. And I have seen the effect it has on other male girls to find out they are not the only ones. And I think the book is worth publishing for that reason and on its own merits. Okay, I’m biased. Ahunter3 flirts with me (and he does flirt like a girl) and that sort of thing makes it hard for me to be impartial. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/102 "2018-01-12T05:37:03Z")
If potential publishers see these threads as his “platform”, I fear that will not bode well. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/103 "2018-01-12T06:13:18Z")
Allthegood, since he had been asked multiple times and steadfastly refused to answer- does he believe anyone is taught to flirt? Does he think this will teach someone how to flirt? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/104 "2018-01-12T06:14:57Z")
Also- did he use up every anecdote so he can’t share childhood stories not included the book to garner interest? ---
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/105 "2018-01-12T06:41:45Z")
Querying non-fiction/memoir is different from querying fiction. Also, QueryTracker is much easier than a spreadsheet. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/106 "2018-01-12T09:53:03Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Allthegood, since he had been asked multiple times and steadfastly refused to answer- does he believe anyone is taught to flirt? I’ll field that one. Yes, people are taught how to flirt, much as they are taught how to speak their native tongue. It’s generally not formal instruction but we have it modeled for us. And around puberty through adolescence, kids compare notes a bit. > [@](#): > > Does he think this will teach someone how to flirt? [Yeah, maybe.](https://ahunter3.livejournal.com/37981.html#comments). ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/107 "2018-01-12T09:55:32Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Also- did he use up every anecdote so he can’t share childhood stories not included the book to garner interest? [No,](https://ahunter3.livejournal.com/33366.html) [not](https://ahunter3.livejournal.com/36740.html) [entirely](https://ahunter3.livejournal.com/36897.html) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/108 "2018-01-12T11:58:15Z")
> [@Allthegood](#): > > and the funny thing about reading all the above criticism of his writing style is that the book itself consists entirely of incidents from his own life, written in a down to earth, colloquial style. I think I’ll take any comments about readability with a gigantic grain of salt coming from someone who thinks that it is a good idea to make their posts less readable by making them light purple. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/109 "2018-01-12T12:03:42Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Totally excellent book. Definitely the genre I’m going for. > > [I reviewed it in 2015 on my blog](http://ahunter3.livejournal.com/20868.html) You didn’t review it. You said “Julia Serano wrote a book. Also, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.” ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/110 "2018-01-12T13:40:46Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I think I’ll take any comments about readability with a gigantic grain of salt coming from someone who thinks that it is a good idea to make their posts less readable by making them light purple. 😃 Also, we’ve read his writing here. Compiling walls of difficult to parse text into buildings of difficult to parse text doesn’t seem likely to increase readability. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/111 "2018-01-12T13:53:54Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > You know I’ve been so demoralized about the whole process lately, but following this conversation through to its logical conclusion has really been reaffirming in a way. I read an article once about how happiness is the freedom to choose how you will suffer. This is how I want to suffer. I can write through disappointment and frustration and broken dreams. I already know how to write alongside despair. I absolutely love doing this work and I’m not going to stop. If you love it that much, nothing will stop you 🙂 I think, in my case, being surrounded by writers all vocally wanting that Holy Grail of being published killed a lot of it for me. Other people in the group later declared the same thing. The initial group we’d all met in gradually dispersed – the “wanting to be published” group broke away entirely. Those who remained were definitely in the writing-as-avocation crowd intent on honing their craft. Writing used to be my biggest passion. It’s still a passion but definitely on the back burner. I realize a lot of that is on me and I have stuff to overcome to move it to the front burner. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/112 "2018-01-12T14:55:06Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I’ll field that one. Yes, people are taught how to flirt, much as they are taught how to speak their native tongue. It’s generally not formal instruction but we have it modeled for us. And around puberty through adolescence, kids compare notes a bit. If that is your meaning, then you _were_ taught how to flirt. You just initially learned the wrong technique and had to learn some new tricks. Kind of like how I was taught how to ride a bike when I was six. But I didn’t start riding until I was seven, once–after months of frustrating practice–I was able to learn what worked for me. Despite your perceptions of yourself as a Very Special Being, most people don’t get their flirt game down until their 20s. And even then it’s ever-evolving. The guys who used to hit on me when we were teenagers by catcalling me from across the street stopped doing that shit once their prefrontal cortices finally matured and they gained more confidence in themselves. Sounds to me that you’re assuming you’re exceptional for coming up with a flirt game tailored to you and your preferences, rather than borrowing from pre-existing templates like all the mundanes do. Are you really sure that you are all that different? Without examples that demonstrate how your flirt game is different from any other random guy’s, why should we assume you are? ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/113 "2018-01-12T15:01:09Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > [snip] > It’s quite frustrating to not be understood. On top of that it’s unsettling to encounter so much contempt. > [snip] “If I _want_ to make myself understood, it is _my_ responsibility to try to make myself understood.” because “It is not my responsibility to understand you, if you don’t _try_ to make yourself understood.” Incidentally I also believe “It is no ones responsibility to make themselves understood, if they don’t want to be understood.” But that actually requires one to be willing and able to live with the consequences of that. You seem to think you’re not responsible for not being understood, even though you want to be understood. We are not responsible for your terrible writing. That’s all on you. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/114 "2018-01-12T15:12:03Z")
> [@kiz](#): > > If you love it that much, nothing will stop you 🙂 > > I think, in my case, being surrounded by writers all vocally wanting that Holy Grail of being published killed a lot of it for me. Other people in the group later declared the same thing. The initial group we’d all met in gradually dispersed – the “wanting to be published” group broke away entirely. Those who remained were definitely in the writing-as-avocation crowd intent on honing their craft. > > Writing used to be my biggest passion. It’s still a passion but definitely on the back burner. I realize a lot of that is on me and I have stuff to overcome to move it to the front burner. I think it was in Bird by Bird where the author wrote, “Everyone wants to be published. Nobody wants to be a writer.” My writers group has writers in various stages, some of whom have been published but haven’t really had their break yet. Our oldest, a former English teacher in his 60s who probably has the best mastery of craft among us, recently stopped sharing his work for critique and is currently trying to get back in touch with doing it simply for the joy of it. His words : “They say if you’re not writing for an audience, you’re just masturbating. Maybe that explains why my vision is failing.” ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/115 "2018-01-12T15:13:17Z")
> [@Allthegood](#): > > That said, I agree that some of his blog posts are a bit wordy and hard to follow – but I assure you that the book in its current form is readable and interesting. I’ve heard of white knighting, but purple knighting is a new one for me! If the blog posts are inferior to the book, then isn’t that a major monkey wrench in **AHunter3’s** plan to use the blog to attract readers? I think it’s kind of pathetic for **AHunter3** to have you come here for the sole purpose of trying to convince us we’ve got him all wrong. He pulls in a friend every time he gets piled on. Perhaps you and his other defenders need to stop blowing so much smoke up his skirt and let him fight his own battles. He’s a big boy. Let him be the serious writer he claims to be. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/116 "2018-01-12T15:22:17Z")
Also, remember that you are wanting people to _pay_ for reading your thoughts–sacrifice some of their limited time and money on a book of yours instead on some other book (or some other form of media.) You have to give consumers a compelling reason to give _you_ their money instead of giving it to someone else. And that means writing what they want to read, not what you want to write. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/117 "2018-01-12T16:33:12Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Some of my experience counts as an example. And the experiences that vary didn’t get me into relationships or enable me to become a nonvirgin, so I think my overall experience kind of does count. You don’t get to have it both ways; there are tons of regular guys who try various forms of hitting on women, from highly direct to flirty to telepathic, that manage to fail at it for a time (or are still failing) too. You keep wanting to paint your experience as so incredibly unique that people will be fascinated to read about it and gain great wisdom from it, but ‘guy who wants a relationship and not just hookup’ and ‘guy who isn’t comfortable directly hitting on women’ are so common there’s whole businesses catering to them. And when you attempt to discount counterexamples by adding additional requirements for them to count, you run into the problem that those rules discount your own experience too, or that they’re so vague they don’t help communication (see the quote below). Also, there doesn’t seem to be anything particular to identifying as female here, it’s ‘not conforming to a one gender stereotype (men only want sex, women only want relationships) that most mainstream people consider a bit silly in the first place, and that is contradicted by some other common stereotypes, and also not conforming to a thing that Ahunter3 thinks is a stereotype but isn’t really held by much of anyone (men are all perfectly comfortable with hitting on women’. If I’m reading the potential book about being genderqueer, I’d find it rather bizarre that a piece/chapter/etc on flirting as a genderqueer person didn’t actually include anything related to non-standard gender identity. “Let’s talk about how guys who aren’t comfortable directly hitting on women get their connections to happen,” underscores the problem here. > [@StrTrkr777](#): > > I was one of those super shy guys and would actually pass a note to a girl I liked in HS saying "Would you like to go out sometime? Yes or No. Needless to say I did not get dates. > [@](#): > > Seriously. Let’s talk about how guys who aren’t comfortable directly hitting on women get their connections to happen. Here’s an example of the definition problem. Does StrTrkr’s simple ‘would you like to go out sometime?’ count as directly hitting on women or not? I’d say that’s pretty direct, but it isn’t the ‘lets go back to my place and bang right now’ that you seem to be referring to in the article. > [@AHunter3](#): > > I’ll field that one. Yes, people are taught how to flirt, much as they are taught how to speak their native tongue. It’s generally not formal instruction but we have it modeled for us. And around puberty through adolescence, kids compare notes a bit. And here we go again - are you seriously asserting that people did not ever model flirting around you? And that you never compared notes with other kids? E ---
**Author:** ![Allthegood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@Allthegood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Allthegood)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/118 "2018-01-12T18:33:54Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I think I’ll take any comments about readability with a gigantic grain of salt coming from someone who thinks that it is a good idea to make their posts less readable by making them light purple. They are a very DARK purple on my screen. Your mileage may vary. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/119 "2018-01-12T18:35:38Z")
> [@Allthegood](#): > > **They are a very DARK purple on my screen. Your mileage may vary.** This post has been darkened by the **DARKENER!** ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144/120 "2018-01-12T19:11:41Z")
> [@Allthegood](#): > > They are a very DARK purple on my screen. Your mileage may vary. Okay, the color is [128,0,128](https://www.colorcombos.com/colors/800080). But the point is, going through an extra step to make your posts a color that is less readable than black on white is not cute, it is not endearing, and it does not give me a very positive impression of your ability to discern what makes something appealing to an audience. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-femmy-boys-guide-to-flirting/806144.md?page=7)