# The “fifth” this, the “fourth” that **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 19, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185 "2019-05-19T17:04:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/1 "2019-05-19T17:04:43Z")
Murray the K and Billy Preston have both been called the “fifth Beatle”. Andre the Giant was billed as the “Eighth Wonder of the World”. Hoboken NJ has often been called the “Sixth Borough” of New York City. Other examples of an unofficial “extra” of something, some place, some band team etc ? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/2 "2019-05-19T17:21:15Z")
John Cairncross was the Fifth Man in the KGB British spy ring. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/3 "2019-05-19T17:23:15Z")
A lot of football teams speak of their fans as being the “twelfth man” on the field that helps the team win via their support. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/4 "2019-05-19T17:27:34Z")
Carol Cleveland and Neil Innes have both been referred to as the “seventh Python.” ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/5 "2019-05-19T17:29:51Z")
Some called Bill Clinton the “first black president”. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/6 "2019-05-19T17:48:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > A lot of football teams speak of their fans as being the “twelfth man” on the field that helps the team win via their support. To the point that the Seattle Seahawks have retired jersey #12 in recognition of their fans. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/7 "2019-05-19T18:26:23Z")
Basketball fans are called the “sixth man”, and I believe the Orlando Magic have retired the #6 in their honor. It was already mentioned that Andre the Giant was called, by the WWF, the “Eighth Wonder of the World”. Well, later came Chyna, and she was named the Ninth Wonder of the World. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/8 "2019-05-19T18:33:31Z")
A lot of folks have been called [The Fifth Beatle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Beatle). Not just Murray and Billy. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/9 "2019-05-19T18:41:57Z")
The term “[Eighth Wonder of the World](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_Wonder_of_the_World)” gets thrown around an awful lot, in fact, and I have no doubt that that is by no means a complete list. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/10 "2019-05-19T20:29:28Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > A lot of folks have been called [The Fifth Beatle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Beatle). Not just Murray and Billy. I only just learned of Murray the K from a NYTimes crossword puzzle a few weeks ago. It was a “fifth Beatle” clue, and none of the answers I normally associate with the Fifth Beatle (Epstein, Sutcliffe, Martin, Best, Preston, etc.) fit in the space. I have even watched the 8-part Beatles Anthology and somehow either missed him or just completely didn’t file him away in my memory banks. I wonder if that’s one of those things you would know if you were an American growing up during the Beatles craze vs. a generation afterwards (like me.) ---
**Author:** ![BlueInfinity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BlueInfinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueInfinity)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/11 "2019-05-19T21:48:49Z")
[Some Friends fans debate who deserves the title of “the seventh Friend.”](https://decider.com/2017/01/17/who-is-really-the-7th-friend/) The three main candidates are Gunther, Janice, and Mike. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/12 "2019-05-19T23:32:32Z")
A group that undermines a larger group is called a [Fifth Column](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_column), usually in favor of an enemy group or nation. It was claimed that Japanese Americans living in Hawaii helped the Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/13 "2019-05-19T23:41:21Z")
Taco Bell, long a haven for late-night inebriated dining, ran an ad campaign a few years ago, positioning those late-night taco binges as the “[fourth meal](https://www.adweek.com/creativity/three-meals-aren-t-enough-taco-bell-18804/),” after breakfast, lunch, and dinner. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/14 "2019-05-19T23:48:42Z")
Newspapers have been called “The Fourth Estate” for 200+ years. It comes from just before the French Revolution: there were three “estates” in their legislative body: the church, the nobles, and the commoners. Laws required two estates to approve. The power of the newspapers in influencing public opinion led them to be called the Fourth Estate. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/15 "2019-05-20T02:13:19Z")
Glenn Campbell was the seventh son of a seventh son. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/16 "2019-05-20T03:07:11Z")
Eighth Day, referring to the creation myth of seven days, and what happened after. Several uses, but perhaps most notably in [Hazel O’Connor’s song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ALdL8oV_sY). ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/17 "2019-05-20T03:42:13Z")
Tommy Oliver, the Green Ranger, was the “Sixth Ranger” on _Mighty Morphin’ Power Rangers,_ and “Sixth Ranger” is now the TV Tropes name for the phenomenon in which someone more powerful joins an established team. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/18 "2019-05-20T04:18:56Z")
The 51[sup]st[/sup] state. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/19 "2019-05-20T05:02:54Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Newspapers have been called “The Fourth Estate” for 200+ years. > > It comes from just before the French Revolution: there were three “estates” in their legislative body: the church, the nobles, and the commoners. Laws required two estates to approve. The power of the newspapers in influencing public opinion led them to be called the Fourth Estate. While not quite as influential as newspapers, and certainly nowhere near 200+ years old, CBC-TV in Canada has had a news program for years, called _The Fifth Estate_. It’s for televised investigative journalism, and built its name off the traditional Fourth Estate. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185/20 "2019-05-20T05:31:10Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I only just learned of Murray the K from a NYTimes crossword puzzle a few weeks ago. It was a “fifth Beatle” clue, and none of the answers I normally associate with the Fifth Beatle (Epstein, Sutcliffe, Martin, Best, Preston, etc.) fit in the space. I have even watched the 8-part Beatles Anthology and somehow either missed him or just completely didn’t file him away in my memory banks. I wonder if that’s one of those things you would know if you were an American growing up during the Beatles craze vs. a generation afterwards (like me.) In the TV film _The Rutles: All You Need Is Cash_, Bill Murray played the Fifth Rutle, “Bill Murray the K”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fifth-this-the-fourth-that/834185.md?page=2)