# The fighting in the Ukraine **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 20, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fighting-in-the-ukraine/723021 "2015-06-20T19:08:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fighting-in-the-ukraine/723021/21 "2015-06-26T15:10:50Z")
It is absolutely incredible to see that people still - _still_ - believe the Putinist propaganda, and think in terms of the US being the sole source of all evil. Must be comforting to live in such a simple universe! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fighting-in-the-ukraine/723021/22 "2015-06-26T21:13:43Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Russia, with no major military bases outside it borders, has not invaded a country recently, and has a history of allowing peaceful secession… [ol] [li]Russia maintains military bases [in multiple foreign countries.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_military_bases_abroad)[/li][li]The assertion that Russia “has not invaded a country recently” is obviously very questionable.[/li][li]Russia has zero history of “allowing peaceful secession”. (See the [Second Chechen War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War).) The _Soviet Union_ ultimately allowed peaceful secession–in the sense that the Soviet government simply collapsed in the face of a secession crisis involving, basically, _every place in the Soviet Union_–but even the process of the dissolution of the USSR [wasn’t completely peaceful](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_Events).[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fighting-in-the-ukraine/723021/23 "2015-07-04T04:05:01Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > [ol] > [li]Russia maintains military bases [in multiple foreign countries.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_military_bases_abroad)[/li][li]The assertion that Russia “has not invaded a country recently” is obviously very questionable.[/li][li]Russia has zero history of “allowing peaceful secession”. (See the [Second Chechen War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War).) The _Soviet Union_ ultimately allowed peaceful secession–in the sense that the Soviet government simply collapsed in the face of a secession crisis involving, basically, _every place in the Soviet Union_–but even the process of the dissolution of the USSR [wasn’t completely peaceful](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_Events).[/li][/ol] 1. I said major, you responded with a list of minor bases, besides the one in Crimea. 2. Not seeing the obviousness, obviously, or else I wouldn’t have said that. 3. Russia has allowed peaceful secession. In the context of my overall argument that Russia’s imperialist ambitions are laughably overstated by US audiences, I can live with your nitpicking. You supported my claim, while simultaneously implying you disagree with it. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fighting-in-the-ukraine/723021/24 "2015-07-04T04:06:30Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > It is absolutely incredible to see that people still - _still_ - believe the Putinist propaganda, and think in terms of the US being the sole source of all evil. > > Must be comforting to live in such a simple universe! 😃 Much simpler to gobble down whatever nonsense is mass produced and shoved into my face. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fighting-in-the-ukraine/723021/25 "2015-07-04T20:12:40Z")
Well, Russia has certainly allowed secession from _other people’s countries_ (Transnistria, Abkhazia and South Ossetia, and now the Crimea and eastern Ukraine). They just haven’t allowed secession _from Russia_. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fighting-in-the-ukraine/723021/26 "2015-07-04T20:51:48Z")
Russia never really changes. It us an innately authoritarian and expansionist country. They’ve reskinned a couple times, but underneath there was no change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-fighting-in-the-ukraine/723021.md?page=1)