# The film Groundhog Day proves Heaven isn't real **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 28, 2023, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733 "2023-07-28T15:03:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/1 "2023-07-28T15:03:02Z")
Wanted to make this about a fantastic Stephen King short story, but realized I’d ruin great literature for new comers just by making a thread topic to discuss it so I found an alternative. The film Groundhog Day doesn’t have that problem. Human conscience cannot handle large numbers. We simply cannot fathom them on a deep personal level and it shapes each of our would views for the worse. This is illustrated beautifully with the lottery or scratch offs. But on to Groundhog Day. It was never mentioned how long Phil was struck there, but lets say a couple of years. How long before he wanted to end it? This film is not proof the human conscience cannot handle eternity in any form, but rather I’d say that is exactly what it argues. The movie had a happy ending only because Phil got out. Had he stayed in an eternity it would have been a Black Mirror episode no matter how good he got at piano. Which means, the Heaven Christians talk about is really a place that mortal man can never get to and enjoy. All the blow jobs and rainbows god can throw at the Righteous can not change the gibbering baboon the human brain will turn into if it exists anywhere for too long. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/2 "2023-07-28T15:21:49Z")
I don’t think “prove” means what you think it means. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/3 "2023-07-28T15:23:03Z")
I love The Jaunt too! ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/4 "2023-07-28T15:24:26Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > But on to Groundhog Day. It was never mentioned how long Phil was struck there, but lets say a couple of years. I’ve heard the director speculated that he was probably stuck in the loop for about 10 years. > [@Sitnam](#): > > Which means, the Heaven Christians talk about is really a place that mortal man can never get to and enjoy. All the blow jobs and rainbows god can throw at the Righteous can not change the gibbering baboon the human brain will turn into if it exists anywhere for too long. I don’t believe in Heaven (or hell, for that matter). Once we’re dead we cease to exist, I believe. But if it was to exist, yes, there’s no way it would be like the old cliche of being pretty much like yourself mentally, only with wings and a harp to strum while you lounge on a fluffy cloud. The entire nature of existence is change. We are always working to make some sort of change happen-- a job, a promotion, more money, sex, a mate, children, finishing a novel, etc. etc. Or to prevent bad changes from happening. Like repairing your roof before the rain ruins your house. The absolute perfection of a Heaven would be by its very definition the absence of change. A normal human mind would indeed go insane in those conditions. The only way a ‘Heaven’ in any form could exist is if the human mind is somehow elevated into some sort of higher consciousness that would essentially make us very different than the sloppy, needy humans we currently are. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/5 "2023-07-28T15:26:27Z")
Well Phil never met God, so it wasn’t actually heaven he was in. More like purgatory. And did he ever actually die? I can’t really recall that point of the movie where he ended up in his endless loop. But I think that your premise is incorrect, he wasn’t in heaven, even if he thought he was. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/6 "2023-07-28T15:29:24Z")
A good discussion of this issue is found in the last season of _The Good Place._ If you’re interested in such topics, I recommend watching that whole series, from the beginning. There’s a lot of set-up to get to the payoff, but the payoff is worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/7 "2023-07-28T15:35:16Z")
> [@solost](#): > > I’ve heard the director speculate that he was probably stuck in the loop for abut 10 years. The director, Harold Ramis, was also Jewish, though largely non-religious, so the Christian conception of a “Heaven” was probably pretty darned far from his mind ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/8 "2023-07-28T15:35:32Z")
In the film, he’s stuck in the same day. Anything he does is undone when he goes to sleep. While that’s a version of an endless existence, it’s not equivalent to the mythical “Heaven”. While we don’t really have any detailed information on what Heaven is supposed to be like, a daily reset isn’t part of the equation, that I’m aware of. Presuming that you can accomplish things in Heaven, that those accomplishments persist, and that the world can and does change, you end up in a very different situation. That might still become a sort of Hell, if it’s unending. But maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/9 "2023-07-28T15:39:08Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > The director, Harold Ramis, was also Jewish, though largely non-religious, so the Christian conception of a “Heaven” was probably pretty darned far from his mind Well, the question of how long Phil was stuck in the loop has nothing to do with Heaven, so I don’t know how the fact that Ramis was Jewish has anything to do with that. It’s the OP who is comparing Groundhog Day with Heaven, to make a point that an eternity of the same thing every day would drive one insane. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/10 "2023-07-28T15:43:28Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > I love The Jaunt too Glad I wasn’t the only one who recognized that. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/11 "2023-07-28T15:48:25Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I don’t think “prove” means what you think it means. ‘argues’ is what I mean in general. Provocative assertions inspire debate. I don’t think this is better: The Film Groundhog Day Insinuates Heaven cannot exist for Humankind ever ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/12 "2023-07-28T15:53:09Z")
> [@solost](#): > > an eternity of the same thing every day So what is a day in eternity? Is it the feeling of a moment, like when you are in an embrace with the one you love? On the other hand, is it an endless agony of reliving your life’s mistakes or a painful death? Neither of which defines heaven in my book. I always thought that heaven and eternity in the Christian sense was being in the presence of God and a feeling of awe in knowing God’s wisdom and purpose. Comprehending things that a single human mind could never comprehend while in this earthly existence. None of which Groundhogs Day deals with. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/13 "2023-07-28T15:55:00Z")
> [@](#): > > What if a demon crept after thee into thy loneliest loneliness some day or night, and said to thee: “This life, as thou livest it at present, and hast lived it, thou must live it once more, and also innumerable times; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and every sigh, and all the unspeakably small and great in thy life must come to thee again, and all in the same series and sequence—and similarly this spider and this moonlight among the trees, and similarly this moment, and I myself. The eternal sand-glass of existence will ever be turned once more, and thou with it, thou speck of dust!”—Wouldst thou not throw thyself down and gnash thy teeth, and curse the demon that so spake? Or hast thou once experienced a tremendous moment in which thou wouldst answer him: “Thou art a God, and never did I hear anything so divine!” If that thought acquired power over thee as thou art, it would transform thee, and perhaps crush thee; the question with regard to all and everything: “Dost thou want this once more, and also for innumerable times?” would lie as the heaviest burden upon thy activity! Or, how wouldst thou have to become favourably inclined to thyself and to life, so as _to long for nothing more ardently_ than for this last eternal sanctioning and sealing? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/14 "2023-07-28T15:55:17Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > The Film Groundhog Day Insinuates Heaven cannot exist for Humankind ever It’s more accurate, although it could be still more so by adding “if you stipulated a lot of non-obvious assumptions.” Overall, sounds more like an open-ended fanon argument then a debatable proposition. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/15 "2023-07-28T16:05:16Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > > [@solost](#): > > > > an eternity of the same thing every day > > So what is a day in eternity? That quote fragment of mine was me responding to @Great_Antibob , who was conflating an offhand comment I made about Groundhog Day with Heaven. When I said “an eternity of the same thing every day” I was referring more to Phil’s experience in the time loop, which was indeed segmented into discrete days, but days which repeated on a seeming eternal loop. Yes, in a Heaven, the concept of ‘a day’ would be essentially meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/16 "2023-07-28T16:08:10Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > > [@Sitnam](#): > > > > The Film Groundhog Day Insinuates Heaven cannot exist for Humankind ever > > It’s more accurate, although it could be still more so by adding “if you stipulated a lot of non-obvious assumptions.” > > Overall, sounds more like an open-ended fanon argument then a debatable proposition. The human mind cannot handle existing in eternity no matter how nice anyone makes it. If a being made this ok with his sky magic they wouldn’t really be human anymore. Which do Christians want to go with? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/17 "2023-07-28T16:10:12Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > What if a demon crept after thee into thy loneliest loneliness some day or night, and said to thee I don’t believe that Nietzsche ever claimed divine revelation. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/18 "2023-07-28T16:10:33Z")
It’s pretty clear that Christian scripture says the latter: humans are changed to be more like God, freed from all the limitations of mortality, including a limited and finite mindset. It’s 1st Century post-Singularity. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/19 "2023-07-28T16:47:39Z")
I can absolutely imagine a desert tribe coming up with a story about a flood and when asked how all the other animals survived someone comes up with the boat idea. Earth’s menagerie would never fit on a boat and a stone age person living in the tropics would know that. Existence, for any meaning, needs to end. You thought Garfield hated Monday’s, imagine a singularity. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/20 "2023-07-28T17:03:12Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Existence, for any meaning, needs to end. Existence, for human meaning, needs to end. It’s not clear that applies to souls in the Christian mythology. You’ve made the assumption that your conciousness exists in heaven the same way it exists on earth. Remove that and your argument falls apart. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733.md?page=2)