# The film Groundhog Day proves Heaven isn't real **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 28, 2023, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733 "2023-07-28T15:03:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/21 "2023-07-28T17:06:45Z")
Step outside of the mental space of the writers of The Bible. I know they were limited, that is certainly why their story is limited. But that story is living fact for many people. Now lets talk about that fact in the modern era and our understanding of the human mind. This is not Theology discussion, but a biological one. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/22 "2023-07-28T17:22:59Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Existence, for human meaning, needs to end. > > It’s not clear that applies to souls in the Christian mythology. You’ve made the assumption that your conciousness exists in heaven the same way it exists on earth. Remove that and your argument falls apart. Yes, like this. It will be closer to a God-like existence. Humans on earth seem to need sleep to avoid going insane. I don’t think that God would need sleep. But I can certainly imagine a being/spirit not needing sleep. It’s a transformed existence, not like we know how. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/23 "2023-07-28T17:28:49Z")
If a spirit is your remnant and it doesn’t need the same things you need then it isn’t you. My toe nails don’t need sleep either. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/24 "2023-07-28T17:31:58Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > You’ve made the assumption that your conciousness exists in heaven the same way it exists on earth. That raises the question, is that thing in Heaven that thinks and feels and experiences in a completely different way from the way I do actually me or is it someone/something else? ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/25 "2023-07-28T17:44:31Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > That raises the question, is that thing in Heaven that thinks and feels and experiences in a completely different way from the way I do actually me or is it someone/something else? As described in the Bible, yes it’s you. You would retain your memories and recognize other people and be recognized. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/26 "2023-07-28T17:53:02Z")
A lot of things are described in the Bible. I wonder if something completely unlike me that has my memories is me. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/27 "2023-07-28T17:53:39Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Glad I wasn’t the only one who recognized that. “Longer than you think!” Is a household phrase over here. > [@DPRK](#): > > “Dost thou want this once more, and also for innumerable times?” would lie as the heaviest burden upon thy activity! Or, how wouldst thou have to become favourably inclined to thyself and to life, so as _to long for nothing more ardently_ than for this last eternal sanctioning and sealing? Hah, I got this one without Googling. I love Nietzsche, he’s so extra. > [@Sitnam](#): > > The human mind cannot handle existing in eternity no matter how nice anyone makes it. If a being made this ok with his sky magic they wouldn’t really be human anymore. Most Christians consider their humanity temporary, their soul eternal. Who can guess what a non-corporeal soul entity would experience in heaven? It wouldn’t be anything like human consciousness, I don’t think. (Note: I don’t think any of this is real.) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/28 "2023-07-28T18:09:55Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > The human mind cannot handle existing in eternity no matter how nice anyone makes it. Eternity is not the same day over and over again, so _Groundhog Day_ proves nothing. Eternity, I have been told, is _not_ an infinitely long time. Rather, it is outside time, not subject to time. I can’t imagine what that would be like, but my failure to imagine it doesn’t prove it’s impossible. > [@Sitnam](#): > > The human mind cannot handle existing in eternity no matter how nice anyone makes it. If a being made this ok with his sky magic they wouldn’t really be human anymore. Try replacing the word “human” with the word “mortal” in the above quote. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/29 "2023-07-28T18:19:21Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > did he ever actually die? Well, we saw at least 3 times where he killed himself: once with a toaster in the bathtub, once by jumping off a high building, and once crashing a car (taking the groundhog with him). Then, his reset point seemed to be his death, not his falling asleep. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/30 "2023-07-28T18:45:30Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Well, we saw at least 3 times where he killed himself: once with a toaster in the bathtub, once by jumping off a high building, and once crashing a car (taking the groundhog with him). Then, his reset point seemed to be his death, not his falling asleep. IIRC, we see at least one scene of his corpse in the morgue, so the reset is apparently actually time-based, and not related to whatever state\* Phil is in… \*Other than ‘enlightened’, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/31 "2023-07-28T19:12:05Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > If a spirit is your remnant and it doesn’t need the same things you need then it isn’t you. So what is “you”? Is it your memories, because you can lose them. Is it your personality, because that can change. Is it your ability to reason, because that can be affected by age, injury, and disease. Spirit isn’t something easy to define - it’s supernatural and everything about it or what heaven is like is speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/32 "2023-07-28T19:27:36Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > . I wonder if something completely unlike me that has my memories is me. No, it is still you with new knowledge. Just becasue you learn or are made aware of something new dosen’t mean you stop being you. You were once a child and are now an adult, you see the world differently but are still the same person. At least most people seem to see it that way. Some people may pretend that their childhood didn’t exist due to abuse, still doesn’t make you a different person, just one with baggage that you’d rather not open. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/33 "2023-07-28T19:31:49Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Which means, the Heaven Christians talk about is really a place that mortal man can never get to and enjoy. All the blow jobs and rainbows god can throw at the Righteous can not change the gibbering baboon the human brain will turn into if it exists anywhere for too long. There are blow jobs in Heaven? Why did the nuns never tell me about this? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/34 "2023-07-28T19:32:17Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > There are blow jobs in Heaven? And yet no beer. Huh. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/35 "2023-07-28T20:04:07Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > There are blow jobs in Heaven? > > Why did the nuns never tell me about this? The catch is, you have to give them to yourself. Ya’ know, since it’s heaven, now you can reach. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/36 "2023-07-28T20:26:31Z")
I asked an actual theologian what he thought about this. He is a Presbyterian minister. I’m not sure I understood a lot of it, but he thinks the physical form is the eternal form, it’s just messed up from being on earth post-downfall of man, and that once people’s souls are fully embodied, we’ll be back in Paradise, which will consist of work and relationships. So he rejects the idea that the body is temporary, he believes the body is eternal, and that eternity has already started. He said Jesus’ resurrection was like a test case and that after the rapture the same thing will happen to everyone else. Most relevant: > But for those in God’s Kingdom, the issue of perception isn’t an issue. If we were designed for it, it will not overwhelm us. In fact, it will be far more pleasing and awe-inspiring than anything we experience here – because we were not made for this world in its current condition. If anything, it’s not eternity that’s overwhelming, it’s the untenable condition of our current situation. > > When we think about things like “The Jaunt,” the scary thing is facing the prototypical viewpoint of a vast nothing for all eternity alone. Interestingly enough, this is primarily an atheistic view based on the idea of an ongoing soul but no transcendent creator and no pattern or order to the universe. An eternity sailing through the emptiness of the universe forever and ever by myself? Yeah, that would terrify me too. That’s just not what I believe. And so I can appreciate “The Jaunt” for what it is, and also appreciate that I don’t believe in that potential fate. I know we’re not explicitly talking about the Jaunt, but let’s get real, we’re talking about the Jaunt. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47774/32.png) [@epbrown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/37 "2023-07-28T23:23:15Z")
You came _ **so** _ close! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/38 "2023-07-28T23:50:38Z")
Hehe, all this speculation of how the human mind would handle an eternity in Heaven. What would await us? Beer? Blowjobs? Would it be more like the Stephen King short story _The Jaun_t, a seeming eternity of nothingness that would make one go stark, racing mad? I personally think that Heaven is the perfect peace we all, on this board, once experienced during the signing of the Magna Carta, or at the end of the Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/39 "2023-07-29T04:01:08Z")
That Presbyterian minister seems to be confused, or possibly is purposefully misleading. I have never seen any atheist propose that, after death, one’s soul survives and wanders alone and lonely in the universe. Atheists generally believe that there is nothing, no survival of any element of consciousness or self, after death. I know of no belief system that supposes that one’s soul would survive death and then be alone in the universe; I suppose some Christians might view that as a kind of description of hell, with eternal maddening loneliness replacing the fiery pit. Probably only Christians would be that heartless. If there were something after death (I don’t believe there is), the Buddhist idea of Nirvana makes much more sense to me than Christian heaven. If you achieve Nirvana, your soul merges with all the other souls; you no longer have consciousness of yourself, but you are just a tiny facet of the universal consciousness – or something like that. That seems much more supportable than any version of Christian heaven I have ever encountered. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2023, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733/40 "2023-07-29T04:58:28Z")
Aww. @solost you always exist in my heart. 😊 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-film-groundhog-day-proves-heaven-isnt-real/987733.md?page=3)