# The Final -a In The Languages Of India **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 22, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622 "2015-01-22T21:14:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/1 "2015-01-22T21:14:20Z")
In English is it proper to write Arjuna, Ganesha and so forth, or should one write Arjun and Ganesh? The delightful desi I date says that it’s the latter. I say it’s the former. One doesn’t voice the -a but it should be written. Who is right? And I’ll need cites. By the way, my spellchecker recognizes the names of the supreme archer and the elephant-headed deity with the final a, but not without. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/2 "2015-01-22T21:29:50Z")
Some of us Indians do voice the final “a” in such names. It just depends on the particular sort of Indians you’re dealing with. Do whatever you like. ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/3 "2015-01-23T12:59:57Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > Some of us Indians do voice the final “a” in such names. It just depends on the particular sort of Indians you’re dealing with. Do whatever you like. Pretty much this. Some languages (such as Kannada) have an implied “a” sound at the end of every word, to the extent that while writing, you don’t write the “a” symbol, but always voice it. Arjun and Arjuna are both perfectly acceptable variants, and would raise no eyebrows. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/4 "2015-01-23T15:20:18Z")
Keep in mind that “The Languages Of India” is a pretty broad category. It’s like asking whether or not “The Languages of Europe” have a specific feature. Maybe some do, maybe some don’t. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/5 "2015-01-23T15:46:33Z")
> [@Dervorin](#): > > Pretty much this. Some languages (such as Kannada) have an implied “a” sound at the end of every word, to the extent that while writing, you don’t write the “a” symbol, but always voice it. > > Arjun and Arjuna are both perfectly acceptable variants, and would raise no eyebrows. > [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Keep in mind that “The Languages Of India” is a pretty broad category. It’s like asking whether or not “The Languages of Europe” have a specific feature. Maybe some do, maybe some don’t. Yep. Kanada, noted above, is a Dravidian language, not and Indo-European language like Hindi. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/6 "2015-01-23T16:10:47Z")
In the specific case of Arjuna, it’s (virtually?) always transliterated with the final A in English translations of _Mahabharata_. ---
**Author:** ![ashtayk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@ashtayk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashtayk)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/7 "2015-01-23T16:29:01Z")
My understanding is that this is an artifact of an attempt to phonetically transliterate from Sanskrit (not Hindi). In Sanskrit all final consonant sounds are finished with a - as in about- sound unless there is a little comma like thing (halanth) under the letter - in which case the consonant has a clipped sound. So, Arjuna should actually be pronounced Arjun"a"(as in about) …not Arjun"aa" (as in apple). ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/8 "2015-01-24T00:27:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yep. Kanada, noted above, is a Dravidian language, not and Indo-European language like Hindi. And about 4% of the Indian population speaks languages that are neither Indo-European nor Dravidian in origin. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/9 "2015-01-24T02:57:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yep. Kanada, noted above, is a Dravidian language, not and Indo-European language like Hindi. I’m told that in Kanada one often hears the final eh. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2015, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/10 "2015-01-24T05:47:22Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I’m told that in Kanada one often hears the final eh. The proper noun ‘Kannada’ actually has two of the quintessentially south Asian sounds in it, that are tough for most English speakers: it has a retroflex D and I think a retroflex N as well, though I might be wrong. my first cousin is a native Kannada speaker. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/11 "2015-01-25T14:58:19Z")
I was just in India. Both Hindi and Tamil speakers said “Ganesha” and “Arjuna” to me, and colleagues from North and South India who live in the US do the same, FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/12 "2015-01-25T17:31:05Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I’m told that in Kanada one often hears the final eh. > [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > The proper noun ‘Kannada’ actually has two of the quintessentially south Asian sounds in it, that are tough for most English speakers: it has a retroflex D and I think a retroflex N as well, though I might be wrong. my first cousin is a native Kannada speaker. Whoosh…a? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/13 "2015-01-25T17:33:50Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Whoosh…a? That’s some of my finest work. Glad that you got it, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/14 "2015-01-26T14:36:40Z")
_golf clap_ ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/15 "2015-01-26T22:09:32Z")
So we were both right, and both wrong. Thanks for all the answers. ---
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/16 "2015-01-26T22:22:39Z")
Wait, so “kannada” is an actual language, not a subtle jab at the stereotypical Canadian tendency to end every sentence with “eh”? :o ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/17 "2015-01-27T22:16:10Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > Wait, so “kannada” is an actual language, not a subtle jab at the stereotypical Canadian tendency to end every sentence with “eh”? :o On the off-chance I’m not being wooshed as well… [Kannada](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kannada_language) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/18 "2015-01-28T22:29:04Z")
I do NOT see myself as the all knowing arbiter of all things. When my Primrose says ‘People in India do this, or say this’ I tend to believe her. She speaks Hindi and lived in India for 17 years. It would be the height of arrogance for me, who has never so much as taken a vacation to India, to insist I was right and she was wrong when it came to everyday matters. BUT, when it comes to formal, textbook matters of language and such it’s entirely possible for somebody with life experience to be wrong and somebody with book learnin’ to be right. For example, some one who knows only formal English would insist that ‘youse’ is not a proper word. Some one from South Philly would insist that they hear it used all the time. Never the less, ‘youse’ is not correct, formal English. I don’t question her knowledge of Hindi as it is spoken everyday. I was questioning only her knowledge of a point of orthography based on what I thought I remembered from several threads here on the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/19 "2015-01-28T23:09:46Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > In English is it proper to write Arjuna, Ganesha and so forth, or should one write Arjun and Ganesh? The delightful desi I date says that it’s the latter. I say it’s the former. One doesn’t voice the -a but it should be written. Who is right? And I’ll need cites. > > By the way, my spellchecker recognizes the names of the supreme archer and the elephant-headed deity with the final a, but not without. Doc - Indian languages are 1000s of year old while English in the US has a few hundred year old history. Indian words have mutated / evolved / assimilated and the same word is said differently in different parts of India. This question is sort of like asking if Christy or Kristy is the right way to write the name. For an extreme example think about Javed and David or Solomon and Suleiman. The answer is it depends. For example - take Arjun 1\> Most central and western states in India, the name is pronounced as : Arjun 2\> Most Southern states : Arjuna 3\> Northern States (Punjab) : Arjan 4\> Eastern States (Bengal / Assam) : Ore-june 5\> Rajasthan / Haryan : Arja \. (the last part is a sound that I do not know how to type in English. For Ganesh : 1\> Most central and western states in India, the name is pronounced as : Ga -\ - esh 2\> Most Southern states : Ganesha 3\> Northern States (Punjab) : Ga -\ - esh 4\> Eastern States (Bengal / Assam) : Gaw - nesh ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2015, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-a-in-the-languages-of-india/710622/20 "2015-01-31T05:56:21Z")
He’s asking how these states are spelled in English, not how they are pronounced in India. Chinese has more than one way to pronounce place names, too, but there’s still generally an official Roman spelling, even if it doesn’t align with all the languages of China.