# The final presidential debate: 10/22/12 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 22, 2012, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497 "2012-10-22T06:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/21 "2012-10-22T15:58:12Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I think you guys are understating just how poor of a record Obama has on foreign policy issues and just how much the public has soured on Obama’s ability to handle foreign policy issues compared to Romney. Darn, you’re right. Romney’s handled foreign policy issues \*so \*well. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/22 "2012-10-22T15:59:32Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > But suppose Romney says something like “unlike my opponent, I make no apologies for America”? Would you have Obama wait for that point to be made and have him say “show me where I apologized?”. “Apologizing for America” is an empty phrase that appeals only to people who can’t separate their egos from their need for America to look tough. Republicans have been accusing Democrats of it forever. As I said, any response Obama makes will be an invitation for Romney to depict some statement or other (like the speech in Cairo) as an apology. What good does that do for Obama? Then they have to argue about what he said and it makes it sound like an apology is a valid interpretation. He has an actual foreign policy record, so he doesn’t have to bother with this crap. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/23 "2012-10-22T16:02:09Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Darn, you’re right. Romney’s handled foreign policy issues \*so \*well. Wait. Are you trying to argue that Romney has no foreign policy experience? If so, that would be a weird argument, considering four years ago. If not, then the argument comes down to how well Romney would be at handling foreign policy issues as compared to Obama. It used to be that Obama had a significant lead over Romney in that category, but that lead has since greatly diminished, meaning that people have either soured on Obama (i.e., they saw his handling of the Libya situation), they have come to agree with Romney on some foreign issue (i.e., tough trade regulations against China) or a combination of both. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/24 "2012-10-22T16:05:23Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I think you guys are understating just how poor of a record Obama has on foreign policy issues and just how much the public has soured on Obama’s ability to handle foreign policy issues compared to Romney. And I think you’re convincing yourself of what the Romney campaign wants everybody to believe. If Romney had substantive criticisms, he wouldn’t be making noise about Obama apologizing and emboldening terrorists by being weak and how Obama isn’t a good enough best friend to Israel. There’s no substance to any of that. Meanwhile most of Romney’s foreign policy pronouncements have been just assinine. This is not an area of strength for him. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/25 "2012-10-22T16:20:05Z")
Bob Schiffer [has outlined](http://blogs.ajc.com/jamie-dupree-washington-insider/2012/10/22/obama-romney-square-off-over-foreign-policy/) the five topics that will be discussed over six different segments tonight. They are: • America’s role in the world • Our longest war - Afghanistan and Pakistan • Red Lines - Israel and Iran • The Changing Middle East and the New Face of Terrorism - I • The Changing Middle East and the New Face of Terrorism - II • The Rise of China and Tomorrow’s World ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/26 "2012-10-22T16:21:55Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I think you guys are understating just how poor of a record Obama has on foreign policy issues and just how much the public has soured on Obama’s ability to handle foreign policy issues compared to Romney. Yeah, ending that war in Iraq. What an ass. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/27 "2012-10-22T16:22:37Z")
AKA: 2/3 of the debate spent talking about a region we wouldn’t give two shits about it if weren’t for holy sites and oil. Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/28 "2012-10-22T16:28:11Z")
I am most anxious to see how Romney handles Benghazi. Will he reiterate the claim that Obama took weeks to acknowledge it as a terrorist attack after the moderator made him look bad on it last time? Basically, I’m curious to see if he digs himself into a hole, because I agree that Romney essentially “wins” a tie tonight. Or, at least he won’t lose anything in case of a tie. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/29 "2012-10-22T16:28:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And I think you’re convincing yourself of what the Romney campaign wants everybody to believe. If Romney had substantive criticisms, he wouldn’t be making noise about Obama apologizing and emboldening terrorists by being weak and how Obama isn’t a good enough best friend to Israel. There’s no substance to any of that. Meanwhile most of Romney’s foreign policy pronouncements have been just assinine. This is not an area of strength for him. In post #22, you said: > [@](#): > > Republicans have been accusing Democrats of it forever. So do you believe no Republican candidate has ever had “substantive criticisms” of a Democratic president because they criticize them for being “weak”? Or will you acknowledge that accusing Democrats of being “weak” does not mean that, in this case, Romney lacks any substantive criticisms of Obama? I mean, I can think of four. 1.) Obama’s failures in Afghanistan (the military there is in disarray) 2.) Obama’s weak stance on Iran and strained relationship with Israel 3.) Obama’s handling of Benghazi, and current conflicts in the ME 4.) Obama’s weak handling of China (China has been thumbing its nose at the Obama administration for a while now) > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Yeah, ending that war in Iraq. What an ass. He was following the timetable set out by the Boosh. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/30 "2012-10-22T16:43:00Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > So do you believe no Republican candidate has ever had “substantive criticisms” of a Democratic president because they criticize them for being “weak”? If that were what I thought, I’d have said it. I said the “apologizing for America” thing is empty rhetoric, which it is, and I said Romney’s policy positions indicate he has nothing of substance to say. > [@](#): > > 1.) Obama’s failures in Afghanistan (the military there is in disarray) And Romney’s position is that it’s good the U.S. is leaving, but the withdrawal timetable is bad, but he’ll stick to it. > [@](#): > > 2.) Obama’s weak stance on Iran and strained relationship with Israel Already dismissed. And Romney has no alternatives on Iran. He has threatening words and complaints about Obama’s credibility, but no actual ideas. > [@](#): > > 3.) Obama’s handling of Benghazi, and current conflicts in the ME This line of attack worked out great for Romney last week! > [@](#): > > 4.) Obama’s weak handling of China (China has been thumbing its nose at the Obama administration for a while now) I know the country agrees to pretend otherwise every presidential campaign, but these guys are not running for president of China. During the next four years the U.S. will continue to do tons of business with China and continue to complain about China at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/31 "2012-10-22T16:47:03Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > 2.) Obama’s weak stance on Iran and strained relationship with Israel In other words, he doesn’t let the Israelis dictate US policy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/32 "2012-10-22T16:47:37Z")
“We need America to get tough! I’m going to expand out defense budget by trillions of dollars and everybody will kneel down to our awesomeness!” “Trillions of dollars? How will you pay for it?” “Tax cuts!” Romney will insist that America stand firm in its defense of Taiwan. We’ll just borrow the money from China to pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/33 "2012-10-22T16:50:31Z")
Shit, almost forgot the Apology Tour! There won’t be any details, like when it happened, where it happened, or what was said. Everybody already knows all that stuff. No need! ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/34 "2012-10-22T16:51:18Z")
What are the drinking game rules? I’ve got a bottle of tequila and I want to get tipsy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/35 "2012-10-22T16:52:23Z")
“Strained relationship with Israel” means the U.S. and Israel have worked together on the current sanctions package. So the U.S. and Israel are mortal enemies now I guess. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/36 "2012-10-22T16:56:58Z")
Look for Mittens to offer Reagan as an example : “He commanded Gorbachev to tear down that wall and he did! Awesome!” ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/37 "2012-10-22T16:58:03Z")
Re: the benghazi thing > [@Marley23](#): > > This line of attack worked out great for Romney last week! Well, that was last week. In the intervening week, a Republican congressman leaked the names of a bunch of friendly foreign nationals. I’d say that Romney can credibly argue that Darrell Issa is less likely to compromise national security and betray the country’s friends under a Republican administration. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/38 "2012-10-22T16:59:47Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > 2.) Obama’s weak stance on Iran . . . Sanctions are in place. What more do you want? Not for anyone to **bomb** Iran, I hope; there’s no way that ends well. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/39 "2012-10-22T17:01:23Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Bob Schiffer [has outlined](http://blogs.ajc.com/jamie-dupree-washington-insider/2012/10/22/obama-romney-square-off-over-foreign-policy/) the five topics that will be discussed over six different segments tonight. They are: > > • America’s role in the world > • Our longest war - Afghanistan and Pakistan > • Red Lines - Israel and Iran > • The Changing Middle East and the New Face of Terrorism - I > • The Changing Middle East and the New Face of Terrorism - II > • The Rise of China and Tomorrow’s World Wow, where is Europe, where is Russia, where is Latin America, where is India? It’s like the Middle East, the Middle East, the Middle East. the Middle East, and China. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/40 "2012-10-22T17:05:09Z")
Given reports of Fidel’s ill health this week, I do hope Obama says somethng or other about Cuba. And Venezuela. Maybe we should now be satisfied Chavez’ government is popular with the people, and make friends? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497.md?page=3)