# The final presidential debate: 10/22/12 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 22, 2012, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497 "2012-10-22T06:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/461 "2012-10-23T02:45:02Z")
Obama sounded great except when he tried to turn things into an attack on Romney; when he was talking about how awesome his policy was he sounded smooth and assured, but when he started talking about how terrible Romney was he started to stumble. I have no idea how this one is going to come out. On substance, I have a hard time finding a point on which they actually disagreed. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/462 "2012-10-23T02:45:12Z")
Romney was in survival mode throughout, being very careful not to allow anything for Obama to pounce on. He also managed to reverse all the remaining positions that he had and agree with nearly everything Obama has done over the past four years. Note to Mitt: Just saying what Obama says, only louder, doesn’t mean you have an opposing position. Unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/463 "2012-10-23T02:45:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’ll need to see the transcript, but I thought that Romney was saying he’d called for a managed bailout, and Obama was saying Romney was opposing any government help. Did I mishear? Look, this is a very already clearly resolved issue and I don’t know why someone who pays attention would not understand this. If the bailout didn’t come from the government, who was going to invest in the auto companies at that time? It would have also devastated the labor market. Romney wanted to Bain the auto companies. He wrote: > [@](#): > > It would permit the companies to shed excess labor, pension and real estate costs. Did we need to shed labor and get rid of people’s pension at that time? Would that have been good for the economy? ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/464 "2012-10-23T02:45:49Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Pretty sure TV only. Thanks, got MSNBC on now. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/465 "2012-10-23T02:45:58Z")
I think the second one was Obama’s best, but this one was solid. IMO, this was Romney’s weakest. He knows fuck all about foreign policy and it shows. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/466 "2012-10-23T02:47:23Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Joe Trippi only saying a slight edge to Obama. It was really close. I can see a draw. I thought that Romney stuck with his plan to be stoic and presidential and he wins on points. > > Obama had the glare going on. He held his own, but Romney did as well. This late in the game, Obama has to paint a clear difference. …or he has to write the headlines. How many times do you think “Horses and bayonets” will show up in the next news cycle? It’s silly, sure, but it’s a wonderful silliness at Romney’s expense, and it provides reporters a great joke that they can justify by talking about Romney’s argument. That argument of Romney’s will probably get more attention on the lamestream media than any other argument he made during the debate, by virtue of being tied to an internet meme. And that’s probably not what he’d like to have as the takeaway from the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/467 "2012-10-23T02:49:31Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Did we need to shed labor and get rid of people’s pension at that time? Would that have been good for the economy? Do you honestly think Detroit didn’t “shed labor” anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/468 "2012-10-23T02:49:34Z")
Bayonets and horses being discussed by Obama’s campaign adviser in the spin room on CNN ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/469 "2012-10-23T02:49:53Z")
When Romney wasn’t muttering vaguely about “tumult, tumult, tumult”, he was praising the President’s foreign policies and achievements. I thought Obama dominated and Romney faltered. Obama looked commanding and in charge, and Romney looked sweaty. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/470 "2012-10-23T02:50:26Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Romney was in survival mode throughout, being very careful not to allow anything for Obama to pounce on. He also managed to reverse all the remaining positions that he had and agree with nearly everything Obama has done over the past four years. Note to Mitt: Just saying what Obama says, only louder, doesn’t mean you have an opposing position. Unbelievable. \*Just saying what Obama says, only louder, doesn’t mean you have an opposing position. \* Yeah, this is problem for him. It’s hard not to think, “Really, so we’ll just go with Obama since you’d just do what he did?” ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/471 "2012-10-23T02:52:49Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > David Brooks, who is clearly biased toward Romney, despite working for a “liberal rag”. IMO. He’s the NYTimes’ token conservative. Last debate when Obama \*clearly \*knocked it out of the park, Brooks practically choked on the words, “Obama might have picked up a little…” He never cracks smile. I can’t stand him. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/472 "2012-10-23T02:52:53Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Do you honestly think Detroit didn’t “shed labor” anyway? The question is whether they should have been allowed to shed all that they would have while trying to appeal to private investors, or to have been saved by Obama’s bailout. Look, it’s frustrating enough to deal with Republicans’ preference for theory on broad economic performance over history. This is a clear situation where Obama’s choice was clearly, demonstrably, empirically proven right. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/473 "2012-10-23T02:53:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The Boca Raton Massacre. Hah, you just reminded me that “Boca Raton” means “rat’s mouth” when translated literally. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/474 "2012-10-23T02:53:15Z")
I was listening to NPR this evening, and the pundit of the hour presented the “horses and bayonets” argument to the observation about the Navy. So I was expecting this retort and applaud Obama for going there, but there’s no reason why Romney should have walked right into that trap. He should have anticipated it and taken the steam out of it instead of just sitting there with that strained, sweaty “I want my mommy” grimace on his face. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/475 "2012-10-23T02:53:22Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > Thanks, got MSNBC on now. I though I saw Maddow on YouTube, but it may have been someone else. She’s not close up, isn’t talking, and I had to lower my connection quality to not get random skips. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/476 "2012-10-23T02:53:47Z")
BBC is saying Obama clearly won this one but that Romney presented himself as not the clown on foreign policy he had come to be portrayed as. So in the three debates, I guess that’s one big win for Romney and a modest and a more sound win for President Obama. I will be glad when this whole thing is over. And it would be a personal disaster for me if Romney won, because I know a strong Tea Party supporter here in Bangkok who would probably never stop crowing about it. The American public had damned well better not let me down. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/477 "2012-10-23T02:54:03Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Romney was in survival mode throughout, being very careful not to allow anything for Obama to pounce on. He also managed to reverse all the remaining positions that he had and agree with nearly everything Obama has done over the past four years. Note to Mitt: Just saying what Obama says, only louder, doesn’t mean you have an opposing position. Unbelievable. > [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Do you honestly think Detroit didn’t “shed labor” anyway? In the spin room, Senator Rob Portman is glad the “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt” NYT Op-Ed was brought up. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/478 "2012-10-23T02:54:49Z")
Obama won the debate but Romney may have won the war - he only needed to look vaguely Presidential and show that he’s not going to completely balls up the job. Remember foreign policy is low down the priority list for most Americans so is hard to believe that those people who are still undecided care too much about the intricacies of the arguments here. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/479 "2012-10-23T02:56:01Z")
Did Romney really say that Syria was Iran’s only route to the sea? I saw some people mention it but can’t confirm it anywhere at the moment. Because if so, dude, seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/480 "2012-10-23T02:56:46Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > Obama won the debate but Romney may have won the war - he only needed to look vaguely Presidential and show that he’s not going to completely balls up the job. Remember foreign policy is low down the priority list for most Americans so is hard to believe that those people who are still undecided care too much about the intricacies of the arguments here. Soledad O’Brien talking to Florida undecideds. One, an unemployed undecided said he thought Romney was weak and he is leaning toward Obama. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497.md?page=25)