# The final presidential debate: 10/22/12 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 22, 2012, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497 "2012-10-22T06:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/41 "2012-10-22T17:07:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Shit, almost forgot the Apology Tour! There won’t be any details, like when it happened, where it happened, or what was said. Everybody already knows all that stuff. No need! I pray for this exchange… MITTENS: I don’t think our Commander in Chief should go on an apology tour around the world. THE PRESIDENT: Now you keep mentioning some sort of 'Apology tour" Governor. I would love to hear you cite just one time I apologized for America. Juts one. MITTENS (getting angry): Well, I don’t have one off the top of my head, but we all know you have gone around the globe, especially the middle east and well maybe not exactly apologized, but the essence of your words were the same as an apology. THE PRESIDENT: So did I apologize or not? MITTENS: Yes, let me explain… THE PRESIDENT: Proceed, Governor. MITTENS (Visibly Shaken): When the President goes overseas he needs ot talk tough and do things that allow no one to underestimate our resolve. THE PRESIDENT: That’s very nice, what does it mean. MITTENS (Getting all whiney): It means, that you suck and I want to be PRESIDENT!! Why won’t you let me be President. ITS NOT FAIR! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/42 "2012-10-22T17:44:40Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > 1.) Obama’s failures in Afghanistan (the military there is in disarray) In other words, he has not cleaned up the previous administrations screw-ups with the war fast enough. > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > 2.) Obama’s weak stance on Iran and strained relationship with Israel IOW, he has not bombed Iran, or obeyed Israel’s wishes fast enough. > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > 3.) Obama’s handling of Benghazi, and current conflicts in the ME IOW, you believe the BS being peddled about some kind of conspiracy. > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > 4.) Obama’s weak handling of China (China has been thumbing its nose at the Obama administration for a while now) IOW, Obama has not blustered and pontificated enough, as Romney has done, and does not have a past business history of outsourcing jobs to China. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/43 "2012-10-22T17:46:35Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Look for Mittens to offer Reagan as an example : “He commanded Gorbachev to tear down that wall and he did! Awesome!” The problem with this is, considering how long ago that was, he would have to explain to at least half of the audience what “wall” he is talking about. And who this Gorbachev guy is you speak of. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/44 "2012-10-22T18:21:33Z")
What I dislike about foreign policy debates is that, while the president has the advantage of an active policy to discuss, there’s so much he can’t say but his opponent will attack him on. “You’ve done nothing about Iran!” “Well, there was that joint operation with Israel to infect Iranian facilities with a virus that destroyed a lot of equipment… oops, forget I said that.” “You’ve done nothing about Syria!” “Well, we’ve been funneling supplies to the rebels through Turkey and… forget I said that.” “You haven’t been open enough about Benghazi!” “Well, it’s complicated by the fact that we had a CIA presence operating out of that facility and… never mind…” I’m not looking to debate any of those examples; I’m just making a point. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/45 "2012-10-22T18:48:51Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > But suppose Romney says something like “unlike my opponent, I make no apologies for America”? Would you have Obama wait for that point to be made and have him say “show me where I apologized?” I’m now picturing Romney using that as the last line of his closing statement. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/46 "2012-10-22T18:49:17Z")
My best guess is that it’s pretty much the same as the second debate - a small Obama victory. Obama has the edge in that Romney doesn’t really have a distinct foreign policy vision and his criticisms of Obama are petty. Also, Obama got Osama - he will probably make reference to this at every opportunity. OTOH, Romney will look good by just sounding knowledgable about foreign policy matters, which helps him. If foreign policy is neutralized as an issue Romney is happy, and he will benefit from low expectations. The tie breaker is that Obama is personally more likeable (which is also why he’s likely to win the election, IMO). > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > It used to be that Obama had a significant lead over Romney in that category, but that lead has since greatly diminished, meaning that people have either soured on Obama (i.e., they saw his handling of the Libya situation), they have come to agree with Romney on some foreign issue (i.e., tough trade regulations against China) or a combination of both. This type of focus on hyper-specific polling is a mistake, IMO. When someone becomes more popular, they rise in all categories, and Romney’s rise on foreign policy is probably mostly just a reflection of his general rise in the polls. When someone rises in the polls you could isolate their favorability rating among left-handed Puerto Rican computer programmers and find them increasing in support in that category, but it would be a mistake to think it has anything to do with the nature or circumstances of people in that category. A lot of people try to do this, however. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/47 "2012-10-22T18:57:33Z")
You can also expect to hear about Romney totally mucking up the one pretense he’s had at a foreign policy tour. He started by managing to insult the Brits, of all people, and it went downhill from there. Remember how Obama used the “Bomb, bomb Iran” line against McCain? He never recovered. Expect something similar tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/48 "2012-10-22T19:15:20Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I think you guys are understating just how poor of a record Obama has on foreign policy issues and just how much the public has soured on Obama’s ability to handle foreign policy issues compared to Romney. I’ll grant you that it’s smart for the Pubbies to take one of Obama’s strengths and make it seem like a weakness. But that’s political gamesmanship with no objective relation to reality. Aside from right wing editorial writers, and red state partizans who are still convinced that Obama’s a “mooslim commonist,” exactly who is buying your narrative? Here in civilization (blue state metro areas where people pay attention to foreign affairs, speak languages besides English, travel and do business overseas) no one is buying your argument. No traction, no effect in the polls. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/49 "2012-10-22T19:18:27Z")
Romney with flash cards: “As President of the United States, I guarantee you will never see me doing [this](http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbWflPoAV1YX_uGxuagtvZA1wANPim6enC46B7wFaMk2BqcUveZA), or [this](http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRyuUo-6-GHvXg--H6ez-1USOwuZZc2QNlWORb76nzNlhvDuaIpZg), or [this](http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRSfs3WRXyOrL6btxqDquAclCeSKi9noCzrPvh8wxr5QdSjTeDmg), and most especially not [this](http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNfmx9AgLuBcjCZ0plkqCK7OWHhxfHgBEPaU3GgyQ0fK_juBp6TQ).” Point, game, and match - Romney! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dataguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eada6e/32.png) [@dataguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dataguy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/50 "2012-10-22T19:39:57Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I think you guys are understating just how poor of a record Obama has on foreign policy issues and just how much the public has soured on Obama’s ability to handle foreign policy issues compared to Romney. Exactly what foreign policy issues has Romney handled that you, or “the public” use as the basis for this comparison? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/51 "2012-10-22T19:52:48Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Bob Schiffer [has outlined](http://blogs.ajc.com/jamie-dupree-washington-insider/2012/10/22/obama-romney-square-off-over-foreign-policy/) the five topics that will be discussed over six different segments tonight. They are: > > • America’s role in the world > • Our longest war - Afghanistan and Pakistan > • Red Lines - Israel and Iran > • The Changing Middle East and the New Face of Terrorism - I > • The Changing Middle East and the New Face of Terrorism - II > • The Rise of China and Tomorrow’s World Oh Good Grief! The Middle East, the Middle East, the Middle East,…uh we have to have one token non-Middle Eastern topic, so lets go with China. Nothing about the Eurozone crisis, what it means for the US or how they would handle it. Nothing about Russia and how it should be handled. Nothing about the rise of India and its attracting of American jobs, nothing about Latin America, and nothing about probably about a half-dozen other things that should be on the list that I forgot to mention. ---
**Author:** ![SirRay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@SirRay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirRay)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/52 "2012-10-22T19:53:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Romney with flash cards: “As President of the United States, I guarantee you will never see me doing [this](http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbWflPoAV1YX_uGxuagtvZA1wANPim6enC46B7wFaMk2BqcUveZA), or [this](http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRyuUo-6-GHvXg--H6ez-1USOwuZZc2QNlWORb76nzNlhvDuaIpZg), or [this](http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRSfs3WRXyOrL6btxqDquAclCeSKi9noCzrPvh8wxr5QdSjTeDmg), and most especially not [this](http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNfmx9AgLuBcjCZ0plkqCK7OWHhxfHgBEPaU3GgyQ0fK_juBp6TQ).” > > Point, game, and match - Romney! 😃 What about [this](http://www.popular-pics.com/Bush_King_Abdullah_Holding_Hands)? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/53 "2012-10-22T19:54:26Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Romney with flash cards: “As President of the United States, I guarantee you will never see me doing [this](http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbWflPoAV1YX_uGxuagtvZA1wANPim6enC46B7wFaMk2BqcUveZA), or [this](http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRyuUo-6-GHvXg--H6ez-1USOwuZZc2QNlWORb76nzNlhvDuaIpZg), or [this](http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRSfs3WRXyOrL6btxqDquAclCeSKi9noCzrPvh8wxr5QdSjTeDmg), and most especially not [this](http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRNfmx9AgLuBcjCZ0plkqCK7OWHhxfHgBEPaU3GgyQ0fK_juBp6TQ).” > > Point, game, and match - Romney! 😃 Because you and other Republicans actually believe Romney deserves accolades for deliberately insulting allies around the globe? “Winning”? ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/54 "2012-10-22T19:57:38Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > The Middle East, the Middle East, the Middle East,…uh we have to have one token non-Middle Eastern topic, so lets go with China. To nitpick, Afghanistan and Pakistan are not in the Middle East. But I agree with your point. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/55 "2012-10-22T20:12:24Z")
> [@SirRay](#): > > What about [this](http://www.popular-pics.com/Bush_King_Abdullah_Holding_Hands)? That’s okay. He’s thoughtfully leading the poor old guy down an unfamilar path. And notice how he remains upright, cheerful, in command and unsubservient the whole time? No ass in the air from that guy, nosirree! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/56 "2012-10-22T20:18:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > That’s okay. He’s thoughtfully leading the poor old guy down an unfamilar path. There’s a joke to be made here about the path to Iraq. Moving on… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/57 "2012-10-22T20:20:13Z")
And maybe a better one about the road to Damascus. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/58 "2012-10-22T21:07:38Z")
Unless there is a total screw up on either side, does this debate mean anything? The debate is going up against a game 7 in the baseball playoffs and a Monday Night Football game. Plus, there are only 15 days left until the election. There’s got to be a level of politcal fatigue among people who aren’t political junkies. Although I don’t live in a swing state, I can only imagine the level of non stop political ads in those states. I think the scheduling of this debate sucks. There’s a reason the debates are usually wrapped up by mid October. Baseball playoffs are unpredicatable and are usually scheduled throughout October, so they’re hard to avoid, but there is no reason to schedule a debate on a Monday night. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/59 "2012-10-22T21:12:23Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Unless there is a total screw up on either side, does this debate mean anything? The debate is going up against a game 7 in the baseball playoffs and a Monday Night Football game. Plus, there are only 15 days left until the election. > > There’s got to be a level of politcal fatigue among people who aren’t political junkies. Although I don’t live in a swing state, I can only imagine the level of non stop political ads in those states. > > I think the scheduling of this debate sucks. There’s a reason the debates are usually wrapped up by mid October. Baseball playoffs are unpredicatable and are usually scheduled throughout October, so they’re hard to avoid, but there is no reason to schedule a debate on a Monday night. True, but you don’t need to actually watch the debate to be barraged with info \*about \*the debate for the next week. If Romney sharts his pants, you’ll hear about it ad suicidium for days. Same thing if Obama pulls his wang out and rubs it on Scheiffer’s wrinkled cheek. So, yes, it does mean something-- it’ll define the media’s narrative for the next 2-14 days. ---
**Author:** ![regginbrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ba9def/32.png) [@regginbrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/regginbrow)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/60 "2012-10-22T21:14:19Z")
I honestly can’t tell if **Starving Artist** is being sarcastic or not, so I’ll just post [this](http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt116/FredWitzell/Bow3.jpg), [this](http://my2bucks.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/bow-bush-43-3.jpg?w=500) and [this](http://www.malcolmr.com/wp-content/images/china_apec_bush.jpg) without comment. (The last image looks a little strange, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Photoshopped, but the other two make my larger point anyway) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497.md?page=4)