# The final presidential debate: 10/22/12 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 22, 2012, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497 "2012-10-22T06:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/661 "2012-10-23T18:38:59Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I didn’t get to watch the debate, but I did happen to flip through FOX, **MSNBC, CNN and CBS** when I got home from work last night. A far, far, far different tone than what’s being presented in this thread. You wouldn’t be saying that the so-called liberal media is getting it right for a change, would you? ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/662 "2012-10-23T18:48:33Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > They didn’t not like the tone at times, laughed at other moments. According to The Onion: \*\*Nation’s Ever So Malleable Simpletons Fluttering Between Candidates Like Shuttlecocks Through Every Moment Of Debate \*\* [http://www.theonion.com/articles/nations-ever-so-malleable-simpletons-fluttering-be,29941/](http://www.theonion.com/articles/nations-ever-so-malleable-simpletons-fluttering-be,29941/) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/663 "2012-10-23T19:05:31Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I can’t stand that smirk on Romney’s face. His expression during the last debate looked more like “oh please God don’t let me step in it again”. That biter-bit moment in the second debate really came back to haunt him. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/664 "2012-10-23T19:06:17Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > After the first debate someone on the radio described the look as “somewhere between a man trying to avoid a really bad smell, and a man desperately trying to resist the urge to tell you how much better his car is than yours.” I saw him described on Twitter as looking “like somebody who’s an a-hole at Chili’s because he didn’t get lite ranch”. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/665 "2012-10-23T19:30:42Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > After the first debate someone on the radio described the look as “somewhere between a man trying to avoid a really bad smell, and a man desperately trying to resist the urge to tell you how much better his car is than yours.” I definitely pegged it as “avoiding a bad smell.” Unfortunately for Romney, the bad smell was coming from him. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/666 "2012-10-23T19:43:56Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Just man up, people. When Obama lost, supporters didn’t make excuses. They may have pointed out the fact that Romney won the first debate with a horse & pony show that trivialized facts and Romney’s own previously held positions, but still conceded that Obama lost. > > Face it: Your guy lost these debates. And whatever value you gave to Obama losing the first has to mean something since your side went oh-for-three since then. It’s the [hack gap](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/10/hack-gap-rears-its-ugly-head-yet-again). And it generally works in their favor, so why would they abandon it now? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/667 "2012-10-23T20:14:31Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > It’s the [hack gap](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/10/hack-gap-rears-its-ugly-head-yet-again). And it generally works in their favor, so why would they abandon it now? I agree with that posting 100%. I was amazed and disgusted at the liberal media after the first debate. Fucking shut up and stick to stating all the good things about Obama dumbshits! After the 3rd, I was expecting the right to rally behind Romney and lie their asses off to make it sound like he won. Early polling showed this not to be the case, but ultimately it seems I was right after all. This of course isn’t new, liberals are like a bunch of cats that simply cannot be herded. We need more Liberal Hacks!!! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/668 "2012-10-23T20:31:07Z")
Progressives have a hundred agenda, they only have one: “No!”. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/669 "2012-10-23T20:35:31Z")
I was mostly joking, but only mostly. I really hope Obama wins, because if he loses, the take away from the 2012 election will be Lie Even More. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/670 "2012-10-23T20:40:48Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > His expression during the last debate looked more like “oh please God don’t let me step in it again”. That biter-bit moment in the second debate really came back to haunt him. Me, I thought he had that “Damn, constipated again!” look. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/671 "2012-10-23T21:02:48Z")
Only up through page 12. Obama seemed to be aggressive. Romney was either saying he’d do exactly like Obama, or that he would have done the same things but faster and better. He flipflopped on what he said it the last debate. And visually, he was sweaty and had that same stupid smirk. I assume that’s just his natural expression, but it doesn’t instill confidence. There was one point really early where Romney was speaking, I can’t recall now, where I couldn’t help thinking - “Wait, this is a _Republican_?” It sounded like the liberal approach. I’ll have to see if I can find it. > [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > “Attack you? Governor, do you think I’m attacking you?” [guffaw, into grin] “Governor, you don’t know what an attack is, if you think these policy differences are an attack–you should try having your patriotism attacked, your nationality attacked, your citizenship attacked, your religion attacked, your family attacked–and that’s before breakfast in the morning. You need a thick skin to be President, you need to learn to shrug this off as beneath your notice. If I whined about criticism as personal attacks, I’d never get anything done in this office–and you never will if you think my comments have been attacks. Now, would you care to respond to my comments, or am I in for more whining? Either way, I assure you, I can take it.” > [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > “Did you say 1917? Well, it’s true that we had a few more vessels floating in the water in 1917, if you want to measure your navy by that standard, but if you took the entire 1917 navy and gave me my choice of five modern US warships, I have you surrendering to me like a little girl inside of ten minutes. Give me six warships, and I’d have you crying real tears. Governor, a navy’s strength is measured relatively to other nations’ navies, and by that standard we’re much, much, much stronger militarily than we’ve ever been, and that’s the only standard that matters. Of course, you don’t know much about this, never having commanded anything larger than the Massachusetts National Guard, but take it from me, I’m speaking the truth. Our navy is second to none, not to every other navy on the planet combined, and it’s going to stay that way as long as I’m President of the United States and commander-in-chief of our armed forces.” DAMN YOU, prr, making me have to like you! > [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Those crazy Israelis, how dare they even consider bombing people without our consent. Oh wait, [they have done it before.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera) :smack: I think the point is that he feels he would have such a tight and involved relationship that they wouldn’t act unilaterally. I mean, that’s ancient history. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/672 "2012-10-23T21:08:25Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > But then they could justify calling their restaurants “Mediterranean Restaurants”. Is this a thing? There’s a Persian so-called Mediterranean restaurant near where I lived, and I always found that geographically anomalous. Google reveals that “Mediterranean” is a favorite word among Iranian restaurateurs. Do they really think they’re kidding anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/673 "2012-10-23T21:18:48Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Is this a thing? There’s a Persian so-called Mediterranean restaurant near where I lived, and I always found that geographically anomalous. Google reveals that “Mediterranean” is a favorite word among Iranian restaurateurs. > > Do they really think they’re kidding anyone? My favorite is a place called the Caspian Cafe. Which serves “Mediterranean” food. Asked the owner about it and he replied that Persia _used_ to stretch to the Med, so it’s okay. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/674 "2012-10-23T21:20:36Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Did Romney just throw teachers under the bus? TEACHERS? I don’t think he threw teachers under the bus, he threw Unions under the bus. He’s not anti-teacher, he’s anti organizations that fight for seniority over ability and obstruct accountability. To phrase it from the anti-union perspective. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/675 "2012-10-23T21:31:28Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I also am four years closer to a nuclear weapon. Hint: They grow a bit faster if you add a little potash to the soil. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/676 "2012-10-23T21:43:14Z")
FTR, the [United States Navy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy) has 287 ships, more than 3,700 aircraft, and “a battle fleet tonnage that is greater than that of the next 13 largest navies combined.” If you go by size then it’s big enough, I should think. How many wars or engagements have we ever lost because the Navy was underfunded? (For comparison, the British [Royal Navy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_navy) has only 78 commissioned ships, now.) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/677 "2012-10-23T21:49:51Z")
As a comparison, what commitments does the RN have verse the USN? Because, really, if you are going to do a comparison, you need to compare apples to apples, and you are trying to compare bananas to gorillas. As for the tonnage size, that’s pretty meaningless as well. Consider…if you have a single ship that is 70,000 tons verse 2 ships that are 35,000 tons each, which is better if you need a ship in one part of the world today and a ship in another part tomorrow? The US has multiple global commitments in many regions of the world, and thus having a couple of really, really big ships, while nice, doesn’t automatically equal having the right number of hulls needed to fulfill those commitments (and that leaves aside the reality that at any given time some of those hulls will be either in transit somewhere or down for maintenance). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/678 "2012-10-23T21:57:04Z")
> [@](#): > > …(For comparison, the British Royal Navy has only 78 commissioned ships, now.) They’ll think differently when the Al Queda Navy steams up the Thames, and shells the London Bridge! An antique landmark sacred to the British… (They did? When? Where? _Arizona_? No shit?) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/679 "2012-10-23T21:57:55Z")
Our Navy’s great and all, but there are asymmetrical ways to negate some of the US’s advantage here: [ballistic missiles](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/27/china-deploying-carrier-sinking-ballistic-missile/), [terrorist attacks](http://www.lindasog.com/pics08/01/USSCole.jpg), etc. I can’t imagine a plausible scenario in which we lost a conventional war, but I think all this “America’s military is bigger than the next x countries” or “we spend more on defense than x% of the world” gives Americans an exaggerated confidence and sense of security. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497/680 "2012-10-23T22:02:13Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Our Navy’s great and all, but there are asymmetrical ways to negate some of the US’s advantage here: [ballistic missiles](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/27/china-deploying-carrier-sinking-ballistic-missile/), [terrorist attacks](http://www.lindasog.com/pics08/01/USSCole.jpg), etc. > > I can’t imagine a plausible scenario in which we lost a conventional war, but I think all this “America’s military is bigger than the next x countries” or “we spend more on defense than x% of the world” gives Americans an exaggerated confidence and sense of security. That just underscores the point that Mitt’s program of defense-contractor welfare won’t do jack squat to address the real-world threats facing America. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-final-presidential-debate-10-22-12/638497.md?page=35)