# The first presidential debate: 10/3/2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 3, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602 "2012-10-03T17:16:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/321 "2012-10-04T05:11:45Z")
**My additions in blue and red:** > [@AnalogSignal](#): > > **Style** > > Obama should have gulped down a couple of espressos and been more fired up. He was too mellow. **Xanax.** > Romney was aggressive, agitated, and, at times, a little confused. **Adderall.** > > **Substance** > > Obama was plausible. **CSPAN** > Fact checkers will find Romney’s plans and proposals to be science fiction. **Fox News.** > > **Verdict** > > A small positive bump for Romney but not enough to win. **Yep, still a dip.** ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/322 "2012-10-04T05:12:23Z")
More generally, I don’t think either of them really did a bad job, and I don’t know that either side “won”. It’ll be interesting to see what happens in the polls and how much Romney picks up. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/323 "2012-10-04T05:16:59Z")
I don’t think there is any question that Romney won the debate. That is the overwhelming media consensus and that itself will help Romney in the next few days. The question is whether it will help Romney over the next month and my hunch is no. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/324 "2012-10-04T05:19:45Z")
Well, it certainly won’t help Obama, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/325 "2012-10-04T05:22:01Z")
People around here root for the Vikings. Sometimes the Packers win. And they still root for the Vikings. ---
**Author:** ![AnalogSignal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/analogsignal/32/1085_2.png) [@AnalogSignal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnalogSignal)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/326 "2012-10-04T05:25:26Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > **My additions in blue and red:** Well done. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/327 "2012-10-04T05:27:09Z")
> [@AnalogSignal](#): > > Well done. 😃 Likewise. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/328 "2012-10-04T05:39:51Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Well, it certainly won’t help Obama, that’s for sure. Well actually I wouldn’t be sure of that. First of all the election is a zero-sum game so anything that doesn’t help Romney win the election automatically helps Obama. Secondly I think there is a serious chance that the “secret plans” attack will have legs and the Obama campaign will be able to carry it through to the election. So it’s possible that Romney gets a temporary boost while Obama gets a lasting and damaging line of attack. That’s not a bad trade. Of course I could be wrong and certainly the media frenzy will help Romney in the next few days. This will probably give him a bigger short-term boost than his whole convention. I am just not convinced he will get any lasting advantage out of it. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/329 "2012-10-04T06:04:46Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I’m one Obama supporter who likes Mitt Romney 1000% more than I did yesterday, based on what I saw in the debate. > > Still won’t vote for him of course, but now if the president loses I won’t be in utter shock or dismay. You should be. It will never be acceptable for another Republican to occupy the Oval Office. This is a well-known fact. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/330 "2012-10-04T06:32:58Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I’m one Obama supporter who likes Mitt Romney 1000% more than I did yesterday, based on what I saw in the debate. > > Still won’t vote for him of course, but now if the president loses I won’t be in utter shock or dismay. I won’t be shocked, but I’ll be dismayed. The scales will have tipped further to the right, and I don’t approve, at all, of what that’s meant over the past 12 years. I have every reason to think it will only get worse under his watch. I don’t care if the dude’s as nice as Fred Rogers, if he signs off on the kind of crazy things guys like Ryan come up with, he doesn’t need to be anywhere in power, as far as I’m concerned. Plus, lying and/or abruptly reversing everything you’ve said for the past six months shouldn’t ever be a positive. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/331 "2012-10-04T06:33:14Z")
I caught the last 10 minutes or so. Obama did not seem particularly lively. Romney was on the attack. But was this a debate or an Alpha Male Aggressiveness competition? Fine, Romney was perkier and more full of male hormone. Bully for him. People are dumb, sure, and that kind of thing can in some cases sway them one way or another. But this really isn’t one of those cases. I don’t see anyone saying that any new information was added tonight by either candidate. I don’t see anyone saying that major gaffes were committed (although Romney and Big Bird might come close). I really don’t think it’s going move the needle either way. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/332 "2012-10-04T06:39:43Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I’m one Obama supporter who likes Mitt Romney 1000% more than I did yesterday, based on what I saw in the debate. > > Still won’t vote for him of course, but now if the president loses I won’t be in utter shock or dismay. If he wins because of one night after months of steady and continuing disapproval, then we will definitely have elected the President we deserve. I mean, wow. Talk about fickle. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/333 "2012-10-04T06:40:47Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I don’t see anyone saying that any new information was added tonight by either candidate. I think the biggest new piece of information that came out is that Romney flip-flopped 100% on his tax break plan. His effective denial and reversal was almost breathtaking, as someone being interviewed on MSNBC said. > [@Bosstone](#): > > If he wins because of one night after months of steady and continuing disapproval, then we will definitely have elected the President we deserve. > > I mean, wow. Talk about fickle. Kerry was behind in 2004 by a big amount, came into the 3 debates and did an extremely good job. He ultimately didn’t win, but came extremely close because of those debates. Debates can be very important in swaying people’s minds, and I don’t think it has anything to do with being fickle. It has to do with seeing them actually answer questions and address their opponents, which never happens in the campaign otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/334 "2012-10-04T06:41:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > It will never be acceptable for another Republican to occupy the Oval Office. This is a well-known fact. No, it’s a lame ass meme-wannabe that ought to be taken to the quarry and thrown in. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/335 "2012-10-04T06:45:56Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > It has to do with seeing them actually answer questions and address their opponents, which never happens in the campaign otherwise. Because Debate Romney, the one who prepped and knew he’d be on camera, is the real Romney, not 47% Romney. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/336 "2012-10-04T06:49:36Z")
Thing is Romney tacked towards center and may have provided fodder for flip-flop style attacks. I don’t doubt that he “Won” the debate: merely appearing on the same podium as the President and not sticking his foot in his mouth will do that. Romney: “I don’t have a $5 trillion tax cut. I don’t have a tax cut of the scale you’re talking about. I think we ought to provide tax relief to people in the middle class. But I won’t reduce the share of tax paid by high-income people. Independent analysts say it is $5 trillion. The part about not reducing the share of tax paid by high income people is new, AFAIK. Hard to see how his numbers could possibly square with themselves or his claims. Moments after the debate, one of Romney’s flacks that they would in fact reverse the ban on pre-existing conditions, conflicting with Romney’s words during the debate. ## The man is all over the map. The campaign really doesn’t care about their plan or the facts. I expect Romney to receive a bump in the polls. But I’m wondering about the deeper game. Most undecideds only see snippets of the debate after all. ## What I’m really curious about is whether Sam Wang’s opinion-poll-only model turns volatile while Nate Silver’s (poll+fundamentals) only edges in one direction or another. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > It will never be acceptable for another Republican to occupy the Oval Office. This is a well-known fact. I wouldn’t be too upset with a Gerald Ford, Dwight Eisenhower or even Herbert Hoover (presiding over anything but a financial crisis). But those characters would be far too neuro-typical and integrity-prone to be nominated today. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/337 "2012-10-04T06:58:58Z")
Silver says this was the equivalent of Romney kicking a field goal. He hasn’t won the game but he’s put himself in a better position. He expects to see a bump in polls for Romney. I still think Obama will come out on top but I’m apparently going to have this migraine for the next five weeks. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/338 "2012-10-04T07:05:25Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Because Debate Romney, the one who prepped and knew he’d be on camera, is the real Romney, not 47% Romney. Haha, great point. It’s so true too. We saw a completely different Romney from the rest of the campaign, who went back and essentially just lied about almost everything he’s been promising up until now. A truly wonderful performance, nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@A\_nice\_guy\_with\_an\_opinion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_nice_guy_with_an_opinion)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/339 "2012-10-04T08:04:45Z")
Obama, for the first time in his presidency was put in a room for an hour and a half with someone who couldn’t lose his job by taking a different side. He had nothing. Too bad he couldn’t execute an Executive order for Ellen and the ladies from The View to come save him. It gets better Thursday the 11th, when Ryan takes Biden and drops him off at the nursing home. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/340 "2012-10-04T08:16:51Z")
Would it be against to rules to get “Luther” from _Key & Peele_ to translate Obamaese into… well… Awesomese during the next debate? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602.md?page=18)