# The first presidential debate: 10/3/2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 3, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602 "2012-10-03T17:16:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/401 "2012-10-04T15:42:48Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > …this is the most ludicrous thing I have read all week. > > Obama has clearly been a C- President… This isn’t the thread for grading Obama’s presidency, but I think I am allowed to respond to your “most ludicrous” comment: Since you hadn’t written the second sentence above when you wrote the first, I can forgive you for writing the first sentence in the first place! 🙂 Exiting Iraq, Obamacare, the stock market turnaround, repeal of DADT, massive job creation, financial regulation, Osama bin Laden. I could go on… ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/402 "2012-10-04T15:43:06Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I can’t be the only one here who thought Obama was distracted by something, and I don’t mean his anniversary. He let way too many fabrications and reversals go by without remarking on them. I can only assume it was some sort of game plan. I just can’t figure out what that plan might be other than play defense and don’t make mistakes. Any way you look at it, Obama could have had a better performance even if he’s working off some devious rope-a-dope plan. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/403 "2012-10-04T15:44:23Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > That might be Romney’s true genius. > > Before tonight, one of the big mysterys was why Romney hadn’t tacked to the center after the primaries. Maybe he realized that he didn’t need to tack to the center until the debates since the persuadables weren’t paying attention yet (and given the lower proportion of undecideds this year). And while flippity-flopping closer to election day carries risks, he might have correctly figured that abandoning his more conservative positions wouldn’t matter at this point because his base would be sufficiently whipped into a frenzy by Hannity et al. > > It’s ballsy, but it might be the correct read of the political and media environment. Okay. So then… at least _two_ Mitt Romneys will be on the ballot. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/404 "2012-10-04T15:56:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He just seems like the “only care about people in groups of a million or more” type of guy. Admit it. If you were a Democrat, you would be making this comment about Romney, now wouldn’t you? Being an independent who usually votes Democratic, I can honestly say I believe Romney and Obama care about their fellow human beings as much as we all do, which is to say they are sympathetic and empathetic in general, and willing to do whatever they can when someone else is in dire straits or just needs a bit of help. Is there even a remote possibility that you can see how your idiotic hunches and things that “seem” to be have no basis in fact? That you have no idea how either candidate truly feels in their hearts about other people? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/405 "2012-10-04T16:00:17Z")
From _The New York Times_, October 4, 2012, front page article: > [@](#): > > In the opening half of the debate, Mr. Obama sought to link Mr. Romney to former President George W. Bush, pointing to the tax cuts he signed. For his part, Mr. Obama sought to link himself to the economic policies of President Bill Clinton. That was the unspoken subtext of the debate: George W. Bush and Bill Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/406 "2012-10-04T16:02:27Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I was surprised to find pundits and the SDMB caklling Romney the clear winner this morning. You’re surprised that the pundits’ message wasn’t “Yeah, it’s pretty much all over; you don’t have to bother watching our shows for until the election is over”? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/407 "2012-10-04T16:04:32Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > You’re surprised that the pundits’ message wasn’t “Yeah, it’s pretty much all over; you don’t have to bother watching our shows for until the election is over”? :dubious: Yeah, some of them are being honest, but some are just ginning up interest wherever they can. It’s what they do. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/408 "2012-10-04T16:08:09Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > You don’t hit them where they’re prepared to be hit- you hit them where they’re not expecting it. Well, yes, but the second half of that equation means you get off your butt and hit them _somewhere_. Obama just didn’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/409 "2012-10-04T16:09:27Z")
The President of the US is the single most powerful human being in a world teetering towards catastrophe. If that isn’t enough to engage someone’s interest, they should go dig a hole and get in. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/410 "2012-10-04T16:20:32Z")
Last night we saw what happens when Obama can’t hide behind a Bush. We now have his 4 year record to judge Obama on, it’s not just what he **said** he will do, it’s what he’s **done** vs what he said he would do/what he says he’ll do. I’m a “actions mean more than words” kinda guy. About the debate, a Facebook Friend of a Friend posted “… had great sound bites but no real substance! He was just spouting slogans and very simplistic logic!” “I liked …’s delivery but disagreed with everything he said. Most of his attacks were half truths without a basis.”
 My comment was “I recall saying that 4 years ago, yet he was elected.” Dare I hope Obama’ll make the changes he said he would 4 years ago if he’s re-elected? I don’t hate Obama, I think both candidates want what’s best for the country, each sees a different path to get there. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/411 "2012-10-04T16:24:37Z")
> [@dba\_Fred](#): > > About the debate, a Facebook Friend of a Friend posted “… had great sound bites but no real substance! He was just spouting slogans and very simplistic logic!” “I liked …’s delivery but disagreed with everything he said. Most of his attacks were half truths without a basis.” I see you wrote “…'s”. I’m assuming Romney’s name as the one deleted? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/412 "2012-10-04T16:29:46Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > This is probably just my disappointment in Obama’s performance talking, but I had a thought. Could Obama have purposefully avoided mentioning things like 47%, Bain, Caymens, etc because he knew that those topics would get talked about more if he said nothing than if he’d brought them up? All I’m hearing today in all of these post-mortems this morning are “Why didn’t Obama bring this or that up?” It may cause undecideds to notice, instead of having it lost in the storm of the debate. > > Or maybe I’m reaching. No, you are not reaching. Obama is a political genius. Behind the question, “Why didn’t Obama bring this or that up?” is the question, “Why didn’t Romney bring this or that up?” ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/413 "2012-10-04T16:31:36Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I see you wrote “…'s”. I’m assuming Romney’s name as the one deleted? 🙂 Ya think? :dubious: Being that I was applying a quote from last night to a thought from 4 years’ ago, yeah 😉 ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/414 "2012-10-04T16:31:52Z")
Personally, I’d like to see the Obama in full on lame-duck, nothing much to lose mode. He inherited a nation in one unholy mess which everyone who has two brain cells knows is going to take far more than 4 years to recover from. On top of that he had to walk a tight-rope his first term, due to some of the strongest partisanship in congress ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/415 "2012-10-04T16:43:14Z")
I just saw a bit of Obama’s first speech after the debate. Without going into details, I’m thinking he didn’t respond as forcefully as he did last night, because he was simply saving up ammo from Romney’s statements to use on the stump. He didn’t want to come off as combative before the whole nation, but rather decided to try an maintain his likability. In the swing states, where it matters, he can bring up his criticisms and be more vehement in his attacks. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/416 "2012-10-04T16:47:40Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Personally, I’d like to see the Obama in full on lame-duck, nothing much to lose mode. > > He inherited a nation in one unholy mess which everyone who has two brain cells knows is going to take far more than 4 years to recover from. On top of that he had to walk a tight-rope his first term, due to some of the strongest partisanship in congress ever seen. Umm, he wanted the job. He said he could do the job. Did he deliver what he said he would? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/417 "2012-10-04T16:53:02Z")
> [@dba\_Fred](#): > > Umm, he wanted the job. He said he could do the job. Did he deliver what he said he would? You hire someone to build your house. As soon as he starts work, a gang of bullies blocks the lumber deliveries, tears down the work as it goes up, steals the tools, and shouls on bullhorns to passers by about what an asshole the worker is for not geting the house done. Would you blame the builder for not meeting his deadline? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/418 "2012-10-04T16:56:23Z")
> [@](#): > > …saving up ammo from Romney’s statements to use on the stump… He brought in a bountiful harvest, if such was his intent. For instance, his adorable insinuation about Obama contributors raking in corrupt cash from the “green energy” programs. First off, whoever is likely to be all entrepreneurial about green energy if not people aligned with such concerns? What are the Koch Brother’s “green energy” investments? But why we rely on facts when insinuations and suggestive hints work so much better. But more importantly, the bald faced lie about half the green energy programs going belly up. Not even close, not even an exaggeration. > **[Media Ignore Report Undermining Their Solyndra Hype](https://www.mediamatters.org/new-york-times/media-ignore-report-undermining-their-solyndra-hype)** This from the admittedly leftish Media Matters suggests less than 2% is the correct figure. Lets say that’s way off, say its twice that. Hell, lets say its three times that. (6% for my fellow mathtards) How in the name of Bleeding Og do you get “half” out of that? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/419 "2012-10-04T16:59:09Z")
> [@dba\_Fred](#): > > We now have his 4 year record to judge Obama on, it’s not just what he **said** he will do, it’s what he’s **done** vs what he said he would do/what he says he’ll do. And he did a very bad job of presenting those 4 years. Sure the Obama presidency (so far) hasn’t been perfect, but it has also had highlights and accomplishments that he did a poor job of highlighting. I think perhaps the most clear is the auto industry bailout, as it’s a great opportunity to highlight the philosophical differences between the left and the right. It’s a situation in which the government intervened in private business, something that is typically a more liberal position, and the result was a rousing, undeniable, and practical-as-opposed-to-theoretical success. That’s the kind of thing Obama should have been talking about. I think Obama is arguing from a tough position, because the basic truth of a lot of the economic indicators and so forth is that when he took office they were a CATASTROPHE and now they’re just bad. But that’s hard to talk about because (a) it sounds whiny to talk too much about how things were when he took over, life isn’t fair, yada yada yada, and (b) pointing out that things are bad now after 4 years of Obama presidency is obviously not something that he really wants to be doing. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602/420 "2012-10-04T17:02:31Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > You hire someone to build your house. As soon as he starts work, a gang of bullies blocks the lumber deliveries, tears down the work as it goes up, steals the tools, and shouls on bullhorns to passers by about what an asshole the worker is for not geting the house done. Would you blame the builder for not meeting his deadline? But the builder told me “Yes we can!” Not “Yes we can” unless “a gang of bullies blocks the lumber deliveries, tears down the work as it goes up, steals the tools, and shouls on bullhorns to passers by about what an asshole the worker is for not geting the house done” happens. The builder can go after the others if they interfere with him, my contract is with the builder to do a job. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-first-presidential-debate-10-3-2012/636602.md?page=22)